Vanguard Monks

Stuff I know is borked on live

• Secrets of Flame III+
• Secrets of Ice All versions
• Secrets of Transcendance All versions
• Wave hand in cloud Energy cost

Dragon Monks Please verify you have dragon sweeps it's tail to make sure you still have the ability
Drunk Monks please verify you have Errant Strikes

If you find anything else not on this list post it here.

Thanks,
~QTM

:(

Uh, what happend to AoE finishers being upgraded? They still do same damage.

And really, the duration upgrade for Iron Hands is sad.
Take BM for example, with a symbiot (something which could be likened to the Jin cost) they can use a buff which is not only greater than Iron Hand (despite it's previous significan upgrade) - but lasts a full hour. It's a rather relevant comparsion because the two buffs do not stack.

- Secret of Celerity: Still global cooldown on it (which makes it 18 seconds duration as it only affects special attacks anyhow).

I never even use Secrets anymore, so I don't care that they're broken really.  Seriously at level 45, my secret of ice adds about 100 damage per hit and barely ever freezes the target.... why would I use that instead of Ashen Hand which usually hits for like 1500?  Or Jin Surge and Feet of the Fire Dragon?  I seriously just don't see a point in wasting jin on buffs that barely even add anything.  Does Iron Hand even give you better damage now or is it still bugged?

Ditto

Dragon Sweeps Its Tail does not have an energy cost. Logged in to day to run a few tests and get a new series of skill screenshots before my subscription runs out, but I decided to wait until at least the Secrets work. Couple of things I did mess with:

• Secrets borked, minus Celerity. How do you add an energy cost to the class that has no energy?
• Palm Explodes the Heart chain is not worthy of a 5 minute refresh. damage goes around  700/800/3500.
• Dragon Rakes Its Claw is 40 END now, but does melee + 200something, so it is OK. Still do not see the logic in how the skill is designed. In every other MMO, a cone attack always does more damage than a true AE if they are of the same level and power cost.
• Dragon Breath is around 1k damage now. Better than before, but I don't know about a 10 minute timer.
• Did not check the damage of the AE finishers in actual combat, but the tooltips did not make me go "WOW nice increase".
• Ignore Pain does 1373 heal. About  a 25% heal, still 5 minute timer.
• Stone Dragon icons finally match up.
• Dragon Stance icon still stays when you switch out of it.

When Secrets get fixed I will run a series of tests to give a better analysis, and post a the revised screenies of a Dragon Monk's skills at 50.

Keep at it, looks like some stuff was changed from test to live. I am kind of disapointed that the palm exploding the heart on test changed as it was a very nice chain (landed for about 8K for normal no crits) worthy of the 5 min cool down imo. I am getting reports that its only hitting for aout 6K with crits now *meh*

*Grumble*  X 2


~QTM

Errant Strikes still sucks and only hits 1 target, (my defensive targets, target.) but it does contain a 15min cooldown vs 1 hour.

 :tickedoff: I am really ticked off..I mean wth? The damage changes to the dragon line are not even funny..I don't get it seriously..what are they afraid off? Every other class gets added damage to their already powerful damage spells/skills (look at BM etc)..I am slowly starting to get frustrated too..and I am normally a freaking patient person..

New bug I noticed.

When I'm changing stances, it resets some cooldowns.
I noticed it on Secret of Flames I and Ignore Pain II.

It's a pain when I want to switch to Dragon Stance to regen faster.

Are you F'ING kidding me!? How can they keep screwing this stuff up?? If you ADD a 5 freaking minute timer to a 50th only line that only does equal damage to a line ANYONE can just do over and over with NO timer, how can you even begain to consider that a useful change? Energy costs on secrets?? Unnoticable change to AoE damage? Is this a gd joke? I too am usually a patient person, but even a saint would be furious by now if they played a monk. All this broken stuff comes right after they destroy our most useful evasive ability too... awesome. Please tell me they are aware of the broken sh*t they pushed to the live servers at least...

I still have Dragon sweeps its tail.

The rest is fracked up.  I use the secrets all the time, its an extra 200+ damage a hit...

I'm usually the epitome of patience, but this just blew my socks off in a very, very sourly tasting manner.

Secrets having an energy cost: obviously copy-pasted from beta. Not only is the increase in duration a nerf - we can't chain use them anymore - now they simply can't be used at all. 100-120 damage added at level 30 is very measly - a buff that a healing class should get at level 20 IMO. Why give something like this to a melee class AND make it cost a unique, player built resource?

Dragon Rakes its Claw is now a measly 80 damage more. How the HELL does that justify an increase in Endurance? It should have been at that damage and more to begin with !
Dragon disciple AE moves: why do they have a reuse timer at all? Their damage is less than what a BMG, sorcerer and whoever else may have AE's can do.
Dragon Sweeps Its Tail... why does a reactive move have a reuse timer at all? For one, it's not overpowered as it is. Second, you need to have parried, which means you need to have been hit several times before it goes off.

I'm starting to get the feeling that fixing the Monk class is like building a house on quicksand. I'm gonna give this game 2 more weeks, and if nothing gets seriously overhauled about the Monk class, I'm quitting.

Silent nerf to Iron Hand as well, with the increased duration. Top rank was 74 damage..is now reduced back to its original 59. Plz sir, may I have some more?

UNBELIEVABLE! 

Iron Hand V now does +60 an attack.... the Frenzied symbiot from a BMG does like 65 and lasts an hour.   /bonk self

+84 or 89, it's quite nice at it's highest rank.

Irony is the amazing buff bards got...
With bard + cleric, my ashen hand now hits for 3000 -- non crit (aroudn 1500 normally). Thousand fist was critting for 9500 (in RI, not in some skeleton infested nest.) Abilities which are more melee + something aren't as dramatically modified, but that's just insanity. ;p

Ya know I took 2 weeks off for vacation and went a few places and come back to bugs and not much change. I understand it was only 2 weeks but I mean this is retarded. It is not even so much the monk class but the state of the game in general and its getting old.  I think its time to take an extended break. Maybe in 3-6 months they will actually be out of beta and monks will be fun as well as  some added high end content. Good luck to you all.

Dragons Breath appears broke. Does about 1400 damage now instead of 400. I'm pretty sure if they intended to increase it to do significant damage (it's on a 10 minute timer after all, ~2 dps / mob hit isn't exactly something you tell your grandkids about) they must have forgotten something, seeing it costs 8 jin and deals less damage than the subpar AoE finisher...

Servers down for 30 min for a hotfix... lets hope...

Agreed, an ability like this should have a 30 sec reuse or something at best. It would be useful supplement to our reguler AEs which build Jin anyways (although slowly), AE AE AE, Dragonbreath, AE... IF it werent on such a long timer but as it is most our good finishers are tied to reuses and stuff like Dragonbreath are even worse, with long reuse and high Jin costs... the only thing its lacking is an energy cost... lmao. Maybe they can add 500 energy cost to it in next patch to make it balanced.

Monks denied!

Servers back up and secrets still with an energy cost

Servers haven't came back up from hotfix. Actually they just went down. I started playing at 1:00 pm est. today and the secrets were bugged but an hour through my play it seemed the energy costs just disappeared. All I did was take fire 4 ad switched it for fire 2 then late on I looked at my ice and it was with out energy and then looked at fire 4 to see that the energy was gone also. Any one else?

Wow damage on Palm explodes the heart really does suck for having a 5 min recast :/

Well, I was back in after DLing new patch and there was still an energy cost, then the servers went down again... still waiting to get back in

This is what actually went in:

Drunken Fist - same damage, less mitigation (ie nerf)
Drunken Mastery - still no hard number on aggro, haste still doesn't stack with Aum Kor
Drunken Sway - went from 15% dodge to 9% parry/dodge (ie nerf)

Secrets now fixed...

Iron Hand V now adds 69 damage

Hate to be the bearer of more bad news but the "Hotfix", didnt actually fix ALL secrets, test out "Secret of Ice III" to see what I mean, they increased the REUSE to 1 minute and 30 seconds but the duration is still left *untouched* lasting only 20 seconds...

Not to mention the fact that with the new reuse timers the abilities should of been brought to 45 second durations so they could match the functionality of their old durations/reuses.

Oh and Dragon Rage still has the exact same 5 minute reuse as before, despite being pretty much exactly the same as "Cloud Dragon's Ruse", which was brought down to a 2 minute timer... at their core these two abilities have pretty much the same functionality- you click, they crit and start chains. The minor damage these two abilities deal is pretty much exactly the same also. The fact that Ruse stunned supposedly doesnt matter since it really was not noticable anyways. Why Dragon Rage was left on a 5 minute timer when they are effectively the same skill with different Jin costs (Ruse is 2 more than Rage) is completely beyond me...

Anyone else fed up with this yet?

I have my doubts that it actually explodes the heart. It should be called "Palm slightly bruises the chest"

Yes... very much so. For the first time since Beta Im actually considering changing classes or simply changing games since I have pretty much exhausted my patience and understanding at this point. The positives from this patch:

*Ignore Pain - Heals for a much more respectable amount

*Secret of Celerity - An excellent change, this is one of our most powerful abilities, the reduced timer makes this ability feel much more "final" and the only thing I would change about this if I had the chance would be removing it from the global refresh as our other secrets are.

*Finisher Reuse - The unified 1 minute reuse on finisher timers makes AE's more useful as well as making the Gouging Dragonclaw/Sundering Dragonclaw Dragon Style finishing line a nice secondary means of DPS to the Thousand Fists line.

*Swaying Step - A great change! If this ability was useable while attacking it would make it all the more useful, but one cant complain with a timer removal.

The negatives from this patch, or as I like to call them "The changes that were almost cool":

*Palm Explodes the Heart - It was almost a step in the right direction with this line by gaining a reuse and a damage increase, unfortunately they didnt actually increase the damage enough to justify the timer. With a high level requirement and long reuse there has to be a reason to use this line over other finishers. This ability line should be dealing 6k to 8k BEFORE crits. It would be nice if each step in the line built 2 Jin as well, making it useful for building Jin every 5 minutes as well as dealing damage. This technique should be the epitome of everything a Monk has learned as a martial artist up to level 50, its something you SHOULD look forward to.

*Iron Hand - This ability increases your damage by a respectable amount and its one of the first techniques you learn as a Monk, and the recent change to duration make the ability less tedious to maintain. I still feel a 10 minute timer wouldve been more inline with the ability, Dragon Styles other Jin supplied buff "Sun Dragon's Corona" is on a 10 minute duration as well with a similier cost.

*Dragon Breath - A nice alternative to a Monk's reguler AE arsenal, since this one is based purely on Jin. The damage boost was definately needed and a positive change, but the ability still remains tied to a 10 minute reuse timer! With a 8 Jin cost to limit its use, this ability should have been moved down to a 30 second to 1 minute timer, allowing Dragon Master monks to supplement their reguler AEs which drain endurance with the Jin based one further solidifying their role as the AE style.

*Dragon Rakes Its Claws - This should be the defining AE of the Dragon Style, the increase in damage while respectable is not enough to make it as useful as the Whirling Storm AE all monks recieve. The increased endurance cost is managable, but the damage on this line should be increased a little bit more. The fact that it is a restricted AE and the Dragon Styles role should justify the increase.

*Cloud Dragon's Ruse - The old reuse of five minutes has been reduced making this ability available more often. But the ability itself is somewhat weak reguardless. The stun duration should be moved to a flat 5 seconds and the chance of a critical hit on the next special attack should be moved to 100 percent (from 30). That would easily justify a 2 minute timer and its weak damage, as you could open a very hard hitting chain with it.

*Dragon's Rage - Completely untouched by today's patch despite being a weak ability that functions much like the changed "Cloud Dragon's Ruse". This ability deals minor damage, but is useful because it will always critical, thus opening up chains, unfortunately that is pretty much the exact same thing that Cloud Dragon's Ruse does, yet this ability was not changed. This ability should of recieved a slight damage increase to make it more competitive in use to Cloud Dragon's Ruse and given a 2 minute timer, like its counterpart.

*Aum Liat - No other Aum that Monk's have are cursed with a penalty as Aum Liat is, it makes no sense. With our nerfed avoidance, this ability should have the endurance penalty removed to make it more in line with other Aum's. As it is, I will just click off the negative portion anytime I use this since the Dodge bonus barely does anything anyways, but the endurance penalty is a kick in the nuts. The Runspeed is always nice however.

*Secret of Fire/Ice - Despite the energy debacle you Devs almost got this one right, the increased duration is great on this line allowing you to keep up one of the two secrets pretty much the course of an entire solo fight, unfortunately you didnt increase the duration quite enough. The duration of the modified line SOULD of been 45 seconds if you were changing the reuse to 90 seconds, so that monks could still chain the Secret of Fire/Ice as they needed.

*Dragon Sweeps Its Tail - A Dragon Style only counter, an AE one at that. This is actually a nice little counter while AEing and your the center of attention because it will stun briefly- unfortunately the 1 minute reuse is quite limiting to its use, 30 seconds would be much more reasonable.

*Jin Surge - Our nice group based buff, this is a great ability, and the reuse is fair enough- unfortunately it is often wasted on autoattacks. This ability should be changed to only effect Special Abilities OR be changed to a 5 to 10 second duration buff which effects ALL attacks while active.

*Defensive Ability - This is a catch all function of the class to me, Monks should have the best general defensive capability of offensive fighters. It doesnt have to be amazing but our two abilities which could help us in that aspect are completely worthless currently. Reed in the Wind has changed for the worse- bigtime. It was overly nerfed and needs to be evaluated, pretty much everyone can agree this wasnt severely overpowering in reguards to other classes solo capability... but it indeed deserved some tuning to avoid abuse. This ability should of been attached to a more reasonable timer, somewhere in the range of 30 seconds so it could not be chained indefinately OR reduced in effectiveness if it were left timerless so it would not be overly effective while trying to stay "dodgey", a 25 point dodge bonus with no timer would of been fine for such a endurance heavy ability I would think. Iron Skin is another ability which should be evaluated at the same time, as it effects our ability to mitgate rather than avoid damage, a 10 minute timer seems a bit steep. This ability should of had its timer reduced to something more useable, a 2 minute reuse would make me entirely happy with this skill.

If all these things could be changed tomorrow or HELL if I knew these things were going to be fixed PERIOD I would be entirely happy with the class, and be more inclined to offer patience even if it took a month. But I havent seen one word from a developer with what they are trying to accomplish with the class. While I can see they are working on things I cant understand how they can make 2 steps forward and 3 steps backward with Monks seemingly every other patch, its getting tiring, and it honestly is feeling like no progress has been made at all when all is said and done.

here's the deal as best i can tell.

Scenario A:
We have yet to have any real attention payed to us.  The devs LITERALLY haven't had the time to look at our class, or have neglected to do so in order to fix things more important.  We are just being strung along like a little dog on leash.  Until the devs acknowledge our class and the ridiculous issues we have (and they come to our forums and tell us as much and stay in constant communication) nothing will change.  They are not working on fixing us, they have not fixed us, they won't fix us until they come to us and say as much.  I thought the last post Talisker made was going to get the ball rolling, but it didn't.  Minor fixes, more issues.

Scenario B:
The devs are all total and complete morons who dont' know wtf they are doing and they don't know how to test classes to see how the issues stack up.  Some Rtard is sitting around playing only the monk and doesn't know how to compare classes and has no sense of balance or equality and therefore has no idea what our real issues are because he/she doesn't know how we compare to other classes. 

I doubt we are looking at a scenario B here.  The devs all seem like they have a lot of prior experience and knowledge about MMOs.  I think we are looking at a scenario A.  They are too busy to fix us, they will not fix us until they tell us the fixes are coming.  Really, all they need to do are fix the major issues and we'll be ok for awhile.   I guess are money isn't as good as ranger money   :uglystupid2: :uglystupid2:

lol :) Wait I guess I shouldnt laugh.. poor monks :(

I'd suppose you'd know from nuking mobs ? :p

But yeah, it does.