Vanguard Monks

i want everyone to right all the abilities they dont use and why they are not used in this thread pls it will help QTM alot

the reason i didnt add this in bug/issues thread, because that thread has a different goal where these abilities need fixes but i think these abilities need changes

Tiger pounce, Trapping Mantis Claw, Wave Hand in Cloud, Diamond Body

Just keep in mind there is a difference between situational and not used.  :P

Tiger pounces is my "Getting down to the wire" move where I am not sure who is going to win a fight.

~QTM

Dragon Rakes It's Claw - Whirling Storm does more damage for the same END.
Dragon's Rage - too low damage to waste Jin on.
Cloud Dragon's Ruse - too low damage to waste Jin on.
Dragon Breath - too low damage to waste Jin on.
Three Finger Strike/Hammer Fist/Palm Explodes the Heart - too low damage to waste time on.
Aum Kor - melee haste is pretty much useless due to how special attacks reset autoattack timer.
Aum Liat - I am willing to bet the only reason this gets used is for travelling.
Aspect of the Spirit Dragon - was cool for about a day, have not used it since.
Swaying Step - I guess this falls into the situational thing, but I dont use it. If I am required to keep aggro off a healer, I need to use attacks to hold aggro. Swaying Step makes you unable to do so. I just equip a Martial Sword and go to attacking.

Iron hands  ;p

Pretty much anything with a reuse longer than a minute, or any buff with a duration less than an hour.
Ok, I lie - I sometimes use the self-heal so I can take another hit.

Sadly, it easier to list what I use than what I don't. :/ Since it's so easy to forget every one of the myriad of skills with insane reuse timers, costs or combination of the both.

Pushing Hands cause I've got no clue what it does and the default drunken form (the yin/yang symbol) as I'd rather be in eternal form for evasion or the aggresive form for the +dmg. 

Pretty much everything else gets some use at some time or another depending on whats going on and whether I'm solo, duoing, grouped, etc.  Though some things get a lot more use than others.

as a dragon monk i never use these
secret of celerty, transcendence - i'd rather waste jin on ashen hand
pushing hands- costs too much endurance
goading slap, waning palm- never seen it work so i never use them
sun's dragon corona- 6 jin for a 20 sec low damage shield lol
dragon rakes its claw- lower dmg than monk trainer ae
aum liat- why waste my time to med for 2 mins then med again for another aum
iron hand- effects  storm dragon proc and i have to always keep an eye on its timer so its been 20 lvls since i used it
jin surge- 5 jin for 1 attack!!!
stone dragon- i dont feel any difference when i get attacked i die from 6 hits by a 4 dot and same goes even with this stance
i think ignore pain might come next on the list cant remember when was the last time i used it :P

Get full jin,  then do Secret of Celerty and do as many ashen hands as you can,  you will see why its on a 30 min timer
Waning Palm only works if you target the person with the aggro,   its a life saver, and it does some nice damage, but you usualy end up with the aggro when using it, but pretty sweet damage for 15 end and can be spammed,

Aum Kor is not melee haste.  Its melee refresh haste...

You know Sun Dragon's Corona is 10 minutes right? not bad for 280 (lvl 50 version)  resistance and a minor DS, especially in Rahz Inkur. This in conjunction with Stone Dragon (for the Fire rune) actually make training around in Rahz a little bit easier.


Aum Kor is also melee haste - Aums (http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i14/SHtilon0375/Aums.jpg) - Either way I would be willing to bet that a vast majority of Monks will use Aum Ti because the other Aums pretty much suck.

i used waning palm but what i am trying to say is it doesnt detaunt our definsive target so whats the piont.....
and chunli so i use it for that chunk only and a 10 mins resist buff why should we need that ( the DS doesnt stay for 10 mins its goes for 20 secs)

(Get full jin,  then do Secret of Celerty and do as many ashen hands as you can,  you will see why its on a 30 min timer)

 i know what you mean but thats not enough to make me want to use it btw count how many hits you make in 20 secs

Hmm, i just tested the damage shield, it lasts for more than 20 seconds (http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i14/SHtilon0375/DS.jpg). The damage is not spectacular in any means, but every little bit can help out, esp with the added fire resist. I do like how the DS actually MISSED a mob @ 21:27, pretty leet stuff there. Not trying to argue whether or not to use it, just letting you know how  the buff actually works.

Waning Palm is very useful, I can snap aggro from my group's cleric if he needs to drop it in 2-3 uses. Goading Slap...I dunno, seems like the Threat portion is not working properly.

Secrets of Trans/Celerity...kind of oddball Secrets. Celerity really is too long, should be dropped to 10/15 mins. Trans is odd that it lasts longer than 20 seconds. If they make Secrets stack with Storm stance, would make it more useful.

I'll by bite.  What does pushing hands actually do?  I thought it was a counterspell but I've never seen an effect.

Do? Drain your endurance pool by 40 and occur a global cooldown.

Before I got it, I was hoping it would be able to elimite those !"#%/"#%/ annoying 50% mitigation abilties half the mobs in certain dungeons have.
I think it's just an old survivor from orignial monk who might have done something once when code was in tune for it, but dosen't anymore - it dosen't do anything in PvP for example - not even reset the stance of for example a bard.

Certian mobs go into a defesnive stance at 40% health or so (more and more mobs are doing it patch after patch) and this ability removes the stance they are in. While I think this adds some trategic debuff value the fact that as soon as you remove this they throw up "Thick Skin" or some other equally stubid mitigation buff  just leaves me *meh*

~QTM

Only thing I've seen remove the defensive stances, buffs etc is the bard dispel. I've never managed to remove it with pushing hands.
To perform decent xp in certain areas you simply need to have a bard to dispel all the "short duration small mitigation buffs" of 50%+ that are way overdone both in potency and rarity (well, lack of rarity).

Most of the NPC's mitigation buffs are exactly that, buffs.  Not stances.
Of course pushing hands isnt going to work on buffs they only work on stances.

Dosen't work on the "bubble" defensive stance either though - which is the first encountered.
Oh, but that's a buff aswell, as mobs are not using stances. The only real use would be against other players, and there it (chockingly enough) does nothing either. ;p

Fighting in river valley I noticed that the slimes could either use a mitigation buff or a mitigation stance.  You have to look at the different icons underneath their name to tell which they're using (stances are the larger icons like DoTs).

Pushing hands seems to go off some sort of success roll.  Sometimes it pushes them out of their stance and sometimes it doesn't.  I generally try to burn them down before they can go defensive.

Nod nod, but they aren't "stances" as for players, rather just a buff which includes the name Stance in it - they do wear off - coincidently wearing off and landing a pushing hands in the same area is what made me in the beginning think I could actually push mobs out. However, I've never ever succeeded on doing it within the first 30ish seconds (even with a chance of failure, it should actually succeed early at some point), which leads me to believe that the buff simply wears off.

Hey can anyone tell me if the lvl 40 Aum (Aum ti?) actually reduces end costs?  All i see in the tool tip when i use it is a crappy parry +5%

It does for me, although I do not know how it reacts with stances that either decrease or increase the END cost of abilities.