Vanguard Monks

Here is a brief IM snippet regarding fixes;


Our fixes are coming soon. I am trying to get details on what exactly is going in to said fixes. I'll update this thread with the details as I get them. I am doing my monk-centric civic duty to make sure we get our much needed love. I shall do my best to get a Talisker / Avair sighting to boot. (No promises but, I am really trying to get some devs to pop in. This way you can see it's not all a delusion in my mind  :uglystupid2:)

~QTM

It really does help to give us these little snippets of hope.  Looking forward to hearing some (hopefully big) changes.

Quinn buddy, you've done a great job as the voice of the monk community and we all appreciate it greatly.

The development team has clearly failed in their communications and progress with us to this point (whatever the reasons may be), and that has nothing to do with your efforts.  That's not to say that they can't make things right, and I sincerely hope they'll make that effort - not just in our class balance, but also in  their relations with this eager and engaged community.

Thanks for relaying this.

QFT. Thank you for making the effort in relaying this and other info to us, it is very appreciated. ^^

Hopefully we will see some changes/fixes/improvements or whatever over the next couple weeks..fingers crossed!  ;)

Personally, I don't lay too much blame on the devs for failing to communicate with the player base as well as needed. Communication is absolutely vital in a successful MMO but at the same time, time spent communicating also means time away from fixing issues and addressing problems. I'm certain guys like Talisker, Nino, and Cylus are working their butts off to improve the game as best as they can but they're handed their assignments from above and there are just only so many hours a day.

Sigil has clearly lacked in some key areas regarding this game, namely project management, resource management, helpdesk support and advertising among others. At the end of the day, the blame fundamentally falls on Brad for that.

Not to be a negative nancy, and certainly not trying to shoot the messenger, but...We have heard this before. Think you can get Talisker to take some time and make a post here himself? I would like to see him make a thread, or respond to one of ours, acknowledging bugs and concerns.

QTM reminded me that I am a slacker and have not been visiting as much as I should.  Apologies.  My team is working hard on numerous things and we are spread thin.  As some of you have noticed, the Paladin just got some much needed love and after finishing that I have moved on to getting the AA system planned out.  The other members of my team (Avair and Assaylant) are pouring through all the class bugs we can find and fixing bugs.  This is not a pass to address your concerns, which will come very soon.  Our primary goal is to get everything working properly and we need to spread the love across all 15 classes.

I speak with QTM daily.  He and I have a great repoire (hes a great guy, so it wasn't hard) and I trust his judgment.  He keeps me informed and pesters me about fixes.  If you are unhappy about the traction you have recieved with your concerns, you should lay the blame at my feet, as he is doing his job well.  (His job btw way is to filter your feedback to me. Bugs and concerns raised both on this forum as well as in his own play.  I simply don't have time to go through 1/2 the threads and get valuable feedback.)

As I told him about 10 minutes ago, we are going to be going through the list of concerns for you class and the other classes and examining them.  Some things are easily fixed.  Others will require more time and code.  I will keep QTM informed and he will pass the information along to you.  I will also try to pop in more often, but it can be hard to break stride on an involved task and post.

See i r not crazy!!!  :uglystupid2:

~QTM

Cool. Maybe we can get a Harmonious and a Drunken to post what they feel as bugs with their styles and post about it. Then have Talisker (or one of his aides) post in said threads. I really feel my thread speaks for all the Dragon Monks, and if replys are made with other stuff I may have missed, then I will add it to the original post.

thanks for stopping by talisker, and thanks for all the hard work you and your team are doing. (also thanks quinn for catching him =P)




perhaps once a week you could pop in and say hi, possibly give us mini updates if it doesnt disclose too much?

your post here will go a long way to settling some of the doomsayers and shed a little hope for us  ;D

Thanks for stopping by, Talisker.  When you have time, can you post Sigil's vision for the monk class as a whole  please?  Are we destined to do 2nd rate DPS while having sub-sub-par utilities in our chosen styles?  The monk community has been plagued by the lack of clear, definate "vision" and we argue amongst ourselves on what a monk should or should not be.  A simple statement is all that's needed for us to cease arguing each other and work together toward Sigil's vision.  Thank you.

Not to be overly negative but that post didnt particularly give me a warm and fuzzy feeling...."we need to spread the love" and "you're included in the review of all classes bugs". I mean I understand they cant focus fully on us but seeing as how we are rather broken not just a little buggy I would have liked to see a little more of a focused "we're definitely working on your class next" or something to that effect. That post just made me a little more disheartened that Sigil just doesnt think we are in line for that much of an overhaul...that we just need your avg bug fixes...

Just my thoughts

I agree with Ninbei's post. Time permitting, Talisker, I think a post detailing exactly how you guys view the monk class as a whole and where we're supposed to be in relation to other classes would simultaneously both dissolve a lot of speculation as well as provide all of us with ample opportunity to provide feedback geared towards your expectations from this class.

Thanks.

Absolutely no offense meant here, but Talisker shouldn't that be part of your job? If you are part of the development team for the Monk class, shouldn't you be reviewing the mass of data that our dedicated monks have provided primarily aimed so you all at Sigil could make accurate corrections and balances based off factual data from experienced members of the class community? I understand it is Quinn's job to relay information to you, but once in a while reading through some of the topics where constructive debates and ideas are being floated up in the air could go a long way toward improving our class and really any class who has a developer reading a class specific forum as a source of information. I just would like to think that once in a while you do take the time to skim through these topics, because we have a lot of intelligent and dedicated players here all looking to help contribute to possible changes. In conjunction with my other post, I think this is truly how to make a bond between developer and player where everyone walks away happy and the proper changes are made.

Just my two cents, and thank you again for even posting to show us all that you are here and aware of our concerns.

Paladins, much needed love?  They're practically the best class in the game!  Good defense, heals, a broken spell that does 2000+ damage instantly, I'd say they don't need much love.  Come on, every patch note we read all the most popular classes that are already the most fixed and polished get more buffs and polish, while us Monks at the bottom of the totem pole continue to be ignored.  It's clearly a huge deal when most of the time there are only 5-10 Monks on that are past level 30, yet there are 10+ level 50 Rangers and Clerics running around.  Nobody is going to start a Monk, and all the current Monks are going to quit soon if something drastic doesn't happen =/

Not trying to spread any negativity, but in accordance with the above post I will say that precisely six of the nine Monks I have been friends with on my server since creation have at some point completely rerolled and abandoned the class. It is also the class I see the least of on my server and particularly in my guild I was the first active monk out of 129 members and until I brought in a couple of my friends.

Perhaps that's a stronger statement about the state of our class than "We're broken."

My feelings exactly. I am not against other classes getting their fixes and tweaks, this is a group game for me and every class that gets a fix is one more person that I group with that will perform better.  However, this totally destroyed my notion that there was a few Sigil Developers sitting around a table discussing soley what to do about the severe underbalance that monks are facing atm.


but hey, thank GAWD they found the time to add this extremely ugly yin-yang icon to Drunken Mastery Stance. Did they lose some artists or something? one of these thigns is clearly not like the others. good thing it still adds the default icon to my buff list and drunken fist icon is still not on buff list, or i'd think we got some bug fixes this patch already!
(http://home.wi.rr.com/sebgjv/icons.jpg)

I came to the site today wondering if I should even bother checking weekly at the rate things have been going, having seen the most recent patch notes. Cancelled my subscription quite a while ago, haven't logged in for 2+ weeks, but at least having a very bare acknowledgement, if not being lumped in with every other class is more than before...which is to say a little Juicy-Juice juice pack is more drink than usual in a barren desert. But still! This at least warrants keeping an eye on things once a week :P

And as others have said, being lumped in with other classes as if we're complete and an actual asset to a group, simply needing some bare bug fixes here and there is very discouraging. But that's why I cancelled and never play, so if Sigil's goal is to do enough to just keep me watching occasionally without paying to play, then bravo!

And this kind of pessimism I have going is the reason I don't post or lurk much, let alone play at all anymore. So I'll keep quiet now. =)

A Paladin is my second main after a monk, and I can say that while they were never in as poor shape as the Monk, all the changes they've gotten have been justified.

Sigil's changes of the paladin have shown a very strong understanding of the class and what it could use the most in terms of tweaks. The fact that Talisker himself plays a Paladin would explain that now.

You could reroll to dragon and get a cool red and black one.  But then you know that stance wouldn't work :/

Hmm, actually reading this post a little better I did become a tad bit more negative. I was really confused why a Paladin needed more love than us. They have a bugged virtue ability in Dictum of Valus where all ranks can be used one after another, and damage is doubled as opposed to 1/2 in PvP. Their virtue point regens faster than the intended 1 per hour. As of this patch they have an instant 6 second stun (useable in combat) with no cooldown and an ability that reduces the heals of the target by 75%. They have heals, multiple invulns, do good damage, have some nice group buffs,  and are Defensive Fighters. The Paladins in my guild say they swear a Dev must play a Paladin.

Why did they need more love than us? I am all for Defensive Fighters being strong since I have some high hopes for end-game raiding. But if they are getting such sweeping changes as they have...well the changes for Monks better blow me off my feet when we actually get  "looked at" We have been broken since the combat system got changed in Beta. The piddly fixes we have been thrown are not what we need to fix us. You basically tossed us a bag of saline with no IV kit while we are dieing of dehydration in the desert. Why on earth would you even THINK of an AA system before fixing all classes. Shouldn't you have everything running smoothly with classes before adding more to them?

As far as reading forums and posting...are you really that much more busy than Avarem and Cylus to check on forums to see how the community feels about issues? People give feedback on Art issues and Quest issues and get responses from them rather quickly. I see the Devs for VGTact posting all the time on their forums. Whereas getting a response from you is like asking us to pull your teeth out. Quinn is great and all, but sometimes the playerbase wants to hear from the Man, not the Middleman. If you do not want to go to all of the fansites to read posts, read the ones here. But at the very least there should be some feedback from you on stuff. The only thing worse than negative feedback is no feedback at all. Which is basically what we as Monks have been stuck with.

Sorry if this post sounds harsh, but when you play a class that you love, and watch as others outpace you (balance wise) when they are already one of the more polished classes, then you tend to get a bit irratated.  Spreading love across all classes is not going to get the job done, I'm sorry. Some classes need a lot more work than others, and (while I may be a bit biased)  Monks are one of those classes. Maybe try speading love, while focusing more on one or two classes. And use the **In the works page (http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/newsArchive.vm?id=091&section=News)**  to post what classes you are focusing on this week. The community as a whole would probably be a lot more appreciative.

Ummm, /agree.  I was gonna say it earlier, but didn't want to take the heat.  Especially the part about pally's needing love.  That made me laugh.  Paladins have been an amazing class since before beta 3 and it's never changed.  The part about being busy in comparison is very valid point as well.  I know Cylus from beta, and he always take the time to respond to my PM's within the day.  Other devs literally take weeks (Tsunadosh anyone?).  AA before you balance classes = horrible idea.

And so far that I have seen Monks have the worst itemization in the game then any other class. Our weapons are a limited choice. Our hand weapons are fast but because they are fast they do to little dmg and thus your specials dont hit hard and your dps actually takes a hit rather then a 2hander which makes your specials hit hard and more dps boost.

Dude, i totally agree that is a load of BS!!!  As i have said in previous posts i have made, especially after game update 1, 
how can you go about adding new content when the original content still needs A LOT of work.  AA stuff will add abilties, but they abilities on our current palette are NOT WORKING AS INTENDED yet.  So you know what AA will mean?  Another 3-4 months of waiting before our AA abilities will work properly.

Come on guys!  You are smarter than that!  You know you can't add new content to buggy original content!  you HAVE to have a strong base before you can build anything else, otherwise it will all collapse!  Finish the game, finish beta, fix the problems that there are now, and do the additions LATER after everything else is already functioning correctly.

You know where our evasion went?   The devs nerfed our evasion and gained a +monk forums evasion bonus and are now maxing out at around 90% forum evasion.  It looks like the devs defensive stance easily trumps our offensive stance because the only attack we have is forums and the devs are nearly immune to those attacks........

Maybe i just don't know anything about MMOs, or maybe i know a lot.  Personally i would sit down and completely fix one aspect of the game before moving on to new things.  I would sit down and fix the classes and balance them fairly evenly, ALL of them (including ability fixes).  Then i would handle the group bugs, then i would fix the AI bugs and then the game world glitches.  To me, the most important part of any game is the part the user interacts the most with, his character.  Therefore, all chracter classes at this point should be fixed (and if they aren't they should be the topmost priority.)

what exactly is AA anyways?

alternate ability points...basically you can get xp to put into AA once you have enough you get 1 point. You can then put that point into an ability that you dont normally have...this gives characters more customization, makes them more powerful etc.  Its basically another form of skills or boosts to current skills and another way to advance your character.

AA = Alternate Advancement. It's simply a mechanism that allows the player to continue improving their character without actually leveling.

It's actually a solid concept because of the issue that max level has on the game. Players always want to feel like they can advance or improve but simply raising the level cap means essentially means adding new content, which must be planned, conceptualized, designed, implemented and supported, all of which obviously takes quite a bit of time to do correctly. Additionally, new content and levels have a tendency to make previous content outdated or even obsolete.

To give you an idea, the way it was implemented in EQ was you would be able to earn XP toward a separate AA bar that once you leveled, would earn you 1 AA point, not a new level. Once you accrue enough AA points, you could then use those points to "purchase" new AA skills, such as increasing your in-combat regeneration rate, or mana regen rate, or run speed, etc.

Personally, I'm glad they're looking to incorporate the AA system into the game, but I would agree with most of the folks above in that it's way too early to be actually delving too deep into at the moment. Fixing the core game should be everything until it's fixed.

I still think it is BS that Talisker does not have the time to read and post here, sorry...I think my earlier reply pretty much hits the nail on the head about how people view his reply to us.  What if every week he makes 1 post answering a set number of issues/concerns/wishes we have? One post is not a lot to ask of someone. I would say 20 items for discussion would be about right. So once a week he answers 20 questions for us in one lump sum post. Think you can try to swing that Quinn?

i think they are working on a revamp thats why they are not fixing us in the previous patches
(only reason i can think of :-\)

Why exactly do people need Talisker to post each week that he's been reading our posts and concerns? This is exactly why Sigil has reps assigned within the community, such as our own Quinn the Mighty. As our rep, Quinn is responsible for going through all of these posts and consolidating them into a single message back to the devs to respond back to him to so he can then convey that message back to us. I personally feel that QTM has been doing a tremendous job thus far but some of these responses seem to imply that some of you do not.

Also, realize what you're asking for here. Talisker isn't exclusively responsible for monks. Expecting him to post here a set amount of times means every one of the other 12 or so classes deserves the same expectation. If he lived up to that expectation of simply reading and posting, where exactly does he find the time to actually make any game changes to address them? He doesn't.

Seeing Talisker or any dev post here is great but I certainly would not want the devs taking precious time away from actually fixing our issues just to come post on our board letting us know how they actually feel about those issues. That communication between dev and player is still happening. It's just through a middle channel: the class rep. And ours is doing a great job of it too.

FOTM here we come.

seems every game I play that the less then good class I play ends up gets buffed to super class.

TKA in SWG
Spines/Regen in COH
Hunter in WOW

I have the feeling it will be the same with this but I really hope that we don't become a dime a dozen class because a like toughing it out with a low played class. Kinda makes you feel good when people who don't normally have a chance to play with your class is in awe at your abilities. Like yesterday I got a bunch of of my guildies jealous and envious of my soaring leap.

What have we heard about any of our skills being looked at? One post saying Monk love inc is utter bullSNARF. Posting AIM conversations is bullSNARF. Not sayign Quinn isn't doing a good job, he is, but it is messed up that Talisker is giving nothing concrete to Quinn to pass to us. The Dev <=> Class Rep thing is good for most things, but when a Dev does not post at all, it is poor customer service. How many posts has Talisker made since the game was launched? Now compare that to just about every other Dev (http://www.silkyvenom.com/pages/devtracker/). If the job is too tough for him...I guess it might be time to hire more help? But I do not feel that him taking time to post would be taking too much away from fixing our issues because well...what issues are being looked at? The fixes tossed our way have been crap, they look like they were conceived when he was drunk at 3 AM as a joke to us. Saying he is working on an AA system shows that priorities are jacked up. Fix what is in game before adding to already broken content.



Don't count your eggs before they are hatched. We have heard things are on the upside before. And I would gladly give up Soaring Leap if they fixed the multitude of our broken skills and brought us to where we are supposed to be. I seriously doubt we will be the FotM class, that would be Pallies. I really hope that Pallies are not going to be the standard all other classes are brought up to. Classes will basically be too powerful too early in the game.

Nooooooooooo please do not take away my soaring leap!!

Sorry but I have to agree with Chunli on this one. I think we need to hear something more than "bug fixes are coming." Bug fixes account for perhaps 30% of the actual problems we face as a class, yet that's the only thing we've heard is definitely coming.

Hopefully we will see an update to this thread soon from either Talisker or Quinn.

Yeah I've had this happen to me a lot in games too...
Teras Kasi Artist in SWG (Before the unarmed/unarmored offense/defensive bonuses skyrocketed)
Martial Arts/Regen in COH (with the long pose-first animations and the 5 to 6 second multi storm kick animation)
Scout->Sundancer in Shadowbane (before flaming fist weapons and all that other stuff)
(I started all these when the games first came out)
Hard/Challenging in the beginning, then a while later I'm considered a cheap FOTM

Back to the main point... I agree with Chunli.  Even if you are working to solve these issues, feedback couln't hurt.

- Monk - All melee skills have had their damage moderately decreased
- Monk - Jin will now decay at a faster rate
- Monk - Soaring Leap has its recast increased to 20 seconds

I read this in patch notes and it has made me make my first post.  This better be a typo or we are getting nerfed yet again. Yes monks are not up to par on damage according to the devs, so we will decrease their damage and make them lose jin faster that should up their overall damage lol.

As Cartman has said: Pwned!

April fools on you  ;)

April Fools Day > you.

WTB an update to this thread from either Talisker or Quinn.

How much we talking????  WTS Updates for 10G PST!!!! ;D

Update;

Sorry to say I really dont have much of an update on fixes at the moment aside which that you already know that. "Bug fixes will be coming soon. "

I did have a couple IM conversations with Aviar about stacking issues regarding the Dragon Monk's procs as well as Drunk / Harmonious style evasion / crit chance stacking issues with items / aums / stances / spells and those will be addressed by the bug squashing squad. In other words these items can get addressed sooner rather than later.

I think I mentioned this before but, currently there is no functionality to cost Jin over time. So dragon stances will not drain Jin. This also means no toggles for our short term buffs. Though they may add this in for our issues list comes around.

I also leared that reed in the wind is supposed to have a cooldown so exepct a "Fix" for it at some point.  :tickedoff:

I'd also like to thak Leishiu and Chunli for thier effort into thier styles issue list. It helps to cross reference it against the master to make sure I am not missing something. I need a drunk to update thiers.... any 50 drunks in the house  :2funny:

I'll get more info soon

~QTM

So maybe suggest that they could have their duration increased (at least iron hands)? :)
Since normal buffs don't really cost anything, having Iron Hands last an hour for 2 jin isn't really uncalled for (it's a normal buff with stacking issues so it's not like it's something special really).

Nice, after having our learn able skills broken for all this time, Sigil finally fixes them and leaves us happy because we have a skill that finally gives us some group utility and soloing ability by tanking/off tanking. Then once again pulls the carpet out from under us. Thanks Sigil

/sigh

Longer Durations are something I am actively pushing for. We may see larger Jin Costs for it though but will be worth it iif it lasts several fights.

~QTM

Well, it's probably that or having it cut in 1/3rd. Hopefully though this adjustment is made along with a couple of general boosts and not in advance of them.
But if it's going to have a cooldown, could either duration or cost be looked at?

A fix is not in the works that I know of. I just know they know if you know what I mean.

~QTM

Well, hopefully they offer some bug fixes that are currently affecting us negatively when they fix the bug with Reed In the Wind. I am sure you could let Talisker know that another kick in the nuts is not appreciated if they don't at least offer to massage them a bit. Anyway, I really hope Monks are going to get looked at soon and we are not having smoke blown our way.

On a side not, are they planning on fixing any of the other classes evasion abilities that are not on a cooldown, or is it a Monk only thing?

Other classes can basically spam their buffs without stopping, so even like 6 Jin to make our self only buff last an hour seems only fair. And a reason to meditate when starting the day heh. I plain just dont use Iron Hands as it is, I just forgot more and more to use it and now its habbit.

If they dont sit down and just fix our problems I vote for a cage match against all the programmers against QTM. Give them a smackdown Q!  :D

Not that I am calling for nerfs against another class but in my conversations I was using the ranger's ability to "chain parry" to argue either
a) Take the cool down off our dodge ability
b.) Level  the playing field and give cool down timers to all auto evade skills

~QTM

I really hope they don't change reed in the wind.  It's pretty useful as it stands, but adding a refresh would make it nearly useless.  Reed in the Wind is the only reason your going to offtank anything.  Its challenging to work around the high endurance cost, the 13s duration (it is limited by global refresh so it's closer to 11s), and doing damage to keep agro.

A change to one of monk's few useful abilities before any fixes to our bugged/useless abilities would be a serious blunder.

I can only hope that we get the same "love" Paladins get.  On Varking (PvP) we have learned to run from Paladins because ever since the last patch they can use their new bugged ability to one shot anyone in the game.  Something to do with a calculation of 1/2 damage of something turned into 2 x damage something, so that they can hit for 7K in a single shot.  This remains in game, still.  I wish Shadow got Paldins so that we could repay the favor.  A Paladin could single handidly take out 3 - 4 other players of equal level.  

A week now and not a tiny little monk change on test yet, and the only word we hear is a nerf to an ability that rangers basically have without the nerf part?
Gettin a little disapointed as i level, im 23 now. Watched a guildie ranger solo , at 21 mind you, those 3 dot wolves in jin'ka forest without any downtime except to cast a heal. I try at 22 and had to feign all the tries i did. I have Kel'dakkar and tier 2-3 armor including rare pieces too.

What board can we go to and start bothering Brad to look close at us?   :'(

On Tharridon there was a broadcast telling Pallies not to use DoV in PvP. Thread about the message (http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17863).

Personally I do not want to be boosted to Pally level. They are going to be nerfed, no single class should be that strong. I do not want to be raised to that standard, only to be nerfed at a later point. It always happens that way in MMOs. One class gets buffed into a god, then they get put in their place shortly thereafter. I just want to have all of our broken SNARF fixed, then see where we stand in relation to the other Offensive Fighters. And better communication between Dev <==> Community.

Yeah, it's been a week and still nothing?

I haven't played my Monk in a week and I do not plan to until some definite changes are made.

Oh and by definite change I am not talking about nerfing our only good defensive ability (reed in the wind)


 :tickedoff:

Not to pester or annoy but it has been over a week now and maybe Talisker can stop over for a minute and say whats up. Nothin on test server, not a peep here either on any changes or fixes.

Talisker said some bugs easily fixed, maybe list a few of the big ones and just how easy they are, as in when will we get em? When do monks get an official pass and really look at our issues?

I have played all classes except Psi into the 20s and monk is by for the one with the most out and out broken, not working as intended, below what they are said even by Sigil should be.

Stances not workin at all<dragon regen stance and if not enough regen not worth usin anyway> FD still wack and cant feign pull <borrow eq1 code? heh> shuriken damage still broke, our dps lower then it should be since monks are suppose to be the highest in light but thats rangers right now <crank up auto attack damage maybe> and our mitigation was nerfed way too far back. Ok sorry i wrote longer then intended but I feel strongly monks need to be looked at now.

And lower soaring leap level into the 20s since rangers got sow lowered to 12 for fun  ;)

Yeah WTF?  weren't we promised some fixes this week?  It's almost over.........  3 days left before we are lead on and pwned again.

Yawn...more relief I halted my subscription and haven't logged in weeks. Losing the will to even bother checking the websites occasionally now. Insert generic monk angst here, etc etc.

The gave the people that put the builds together (patches) some rest.. and its well deserved too. I have a friend who works in game development.. crunch time is a nightmare.. and these guys are in 24/7 crunch right now.

hehe, i'll help do some coding for the monk, i think it'd be fun to learn how and who knows, maybe monks might be a tad bit uber after i get done with the code  ;)

My monk is in semi retirement until they fix alot of stuff. Not just a few cosmetic changes but real FIXES.
Such a shame as the monk was my first and main choice. @ lvl 24 I have the highest Monk in the guild. Others are 15 and below and are also not being played. Other monk is now only used as a tradeskiller. If this doesnt paint a picture for Sigil then nothing will. 110 members in the guild and they cant get any monks. Do the maths.

In my guild of around 100 active players, there are currently two active monks including myself.

Out of those two Monks, 0 of them are currently enjoying their class.

That should "paint the picture" for Sigil a little bit.

It's also fairly obvious we're of low priority because no one is playing them right now, which um, sucks?

Its a vicious cycle. Not enough play monks to spam the message boards to get fixed faster because everyone knows we are broken so few bother so we become a minorityto deal with and always on the back burner.  :'(

Exactly. It's good business. Keep the majority happy and screw the ranting minority.

...except until the repressed revolt in an uprising   >:(  :knuppel2:  :knuppel2:  :knuppel2: :knuppel2:  :knuppel2:  :knuppel2:  :knuppel2:  >:(

"Remember remember the 5th of November....."

It's time to REVOLT!  Classes shouldn't be afraid of their devs, devs should be afraid of their customers!

haha this made me chuckle at work  ;D

Well I can say this i took a 2 week break from playin came back and had a little fun last night but I still couldn't belive we still haven't been looked at. I can't belive it sucks I wish they would just suprise us with the patch like on tuesday or monday or something. Then we can get back into the buisness of kickin in mobs faces lol  :uglystupid2:

Another test server patch today, and still nothing about Monks.
**Crosses fingers for better news next week**

Source:
(http://www.vanguardspheres.com/forums/announcements/9395-vanguard-build-1803-patch-notes-4-a.html (http://www.vanguardspheres.com/forums/announcements/9395-vanguard-build-1803-patch-notes-4-a.html))

I am really confused how they are working on bug fixes for all classes, spreading love across all classes, yet our stances remain SNARFed up (call me crazy if thinking stances that do not work a is a pretty SNARFing serious bug). No mention of Monk fixes in notes the past 2 weeks. Nothing has been addressed. At all. Yet something as piddly as a SNARFing Ranger pet gets fixed/improved? Every week that goes by I feel like Sigil is saying "SNARF you" to the Monk community.

kinda sad to see that the majority of the other classes got some thing in the last 2 weeks, except monks go big fat 0 :( and above that there arent very communicative with us to know whats going on.

Guys;

Some of our stuff is a little more complicated than increase hp's to our pet. I asked to get some kind of document regarding our bug list and I should have something worth saying on that soon. (soon.... is turning into my Aum *meh*)

I was able to have a brief IM session with Talisker regarding some of the stance issues. I only got a couple of questions in before my ISP droppped.

Regarding the Dragon Monk soon to go to test;
- Health Regen working  :)  (Made sure it works in combat)
- Proc Abilities Stacking right (I was having a discussion regading proc damage from Strom Dragon but lost my ISP  :tickedoff:)
- Damage Abilities Stacking right (Iron Hands / Stance / Secrets.)
- Then my ISP crapped out.... meh X 2

More info as I get it

~QTM

P.S. This is not directed at any one in particular poster but the tone of posts have been degrading lately. I understand the frustration, but if ya cant keep it civil then I can't respond. Simple as that. Let's keep it constructive.

Thanks Quinn! I think most of us just really needed a word, just felt beat down each patch note but this has really helped my attitude  ;)

Curious on the health regen, did you get to try it? Like how much? I personally dont care if it works in combat as long as out of combat is like food level or close. Just the idea of being feigned and regening makes me giddy  :laugh:

Conspiracy theory of the day. My isp went down up here in the north west, and two guildies in other parts of the country were down at different times today too. <x-files music>

Aradune = Brad Mcquaid = ranger, and Im sure he will not let that class get borked like it did a few months into EQ1.

Unfortuneately not as it was fixed on the dev server and not pushed to test yet. From the notes I have though it should be 20 pts or so a tick and scale upwards in level to somewhere to almost 70-80 a tic at 50. I am not sure if vitiality effects this as well as it for all intensive purposes a heal over time. Once it hits test though I can fart around with different stats to give you something more concrete

~QTM

Quinn, is it possible for you to find out whats in store for Harm monks and Drunken monks? and if there gonna extend the buff time on iron hand. Cause its behond annoying to all ways click on it at the start of a fight with a secret.

I was in the process of doing so when I lost my connection. Dragon and Drunken styles imo need more love than the harmonious monk, but Harmonious stanes may need to be rethought as well. (Read:  nothing is in the works to nerf tiger stance so put the torches and pitchforks away  :crazy2:)

I'll try and pick up where I left off with Talisker on Monday.

~QTM

Quinn, you're doing a fantastic job given the large amount of pressure I'm sure you feel is coming from the Monk community as a whole. I'm sorry if I have been contributing a bit too much to the negativity on these forums but you must understand that our situation is currently a lot bigger than fixing Dragon monk health regeneration.

So far, even from your own posts, the only indication of concrete changes being thrown our way is bug fixes while other classes get completely rebalanced.

This is why my monk is retired now. I've said it before and I'll repeat myself again, we need much more than bug fixes and until I hear otherwise from yourself or a developer, I'm sorry I just have no reason to play my Monk anymore.

As a Dragon monk, health regeneration is perhaps my least most important concern. Funny how that's the first thing to get fixed when the majority were calling for that to be replaced altogether.

I'm sorry Quinn, again you're doing a great job given all the pressure, unfortunately I hate to say I'm just still an unhappy monk that isn't going to be playing.

And Quinn, you also have to understand that so much of the "degradation of tone" in the posts recently is directly linked to the fact that we are not seeing any changes and the only changes even being mentioned are bug fixes of mild to moderate importance where the stance on the real issues of our class remains up in the air and unconfirmed.

One can only be optimistic so long, and a lot of people I think here have met that threshold, myself included.

Sorry to be turning this in to something of a rant, I'm simply sharing my thoughts:

Also you mentioned that everyone needs to stick with being constructive. Everyone here has been constructive. We have monks who busted their ass compiling data and issues as well as many here working outside the game on these forums to come up with alternatives and solutions to many of our problems. All the constructive posts are here and waiting to be confirmed or put into action. There's only so many times you can state the problems we face, and basically every issue is covered and compounded into the individual stance sticky threads. There's really nothing more to say other then "Where are the changes?"

Odd, ass a dragon monk i REALLY want regen, if its noticable enough. Cleric regens i dont seem to notice. Now if its more like a low level HoT spell, woohoo!
Perfect to keep downtime to a minimum, which compared to other classes I have a ton of. And also while feigned/pulling regen is great.

Just hope its enough regen /crosses fingers

Its stone dragon stance i think is bit lame, i still think 20% more damage with that 20% slow would make it worthwhile as a tank situation.

Very well spoken... Very well spoken indeed. There's been several people here who's been speaking much about the issues and bugs conserning the monk class. I've seen idea's, solutions to most of the problems... Yet nothing have changed... They've all pretty much been ignored (according to the patches) and yet they've all kept it pretty much civil around here. I think its time for Sigil's staff to do something constructive now.... Start working on the god damn MONKS allready :knuppel2:

Thank you.

Love Dopapir  :smitten:

I must say there are solutions to every single problem with the monk that has ever been brought up, and as said earlier there is plenty of info there to fix the issues and plenty of suggestions stickied in one spot.

Being civil has made absolutely no difference.  We've been civil and we haven't receieved the important fixes.

Of course being rude and obnoxious hasn't done anything either......

I'm running out of ways to complain here  :tickedoff:

So should i start like hitting on the devs?  will that get anything done?  My talisker what big arms you have!  And your fingers...... oh how the move so fast when typing.  I want you to code my class all day long baby!

But seriously, no fixes, no updates, no time frame or schedule, nothing.  Are they even working on monks?  are they REALLY working on a fix for our stances, and balancing our class?  Until i get here some real answers about them fixing our major issues i will not be happy and im losing any reason to be civil.  I've asked nicely for a timeframe about when they will get around to fixing us for real so i dont' have to troll the forums waiting for an answer.  I've asked rudely for a timeframe.  We haven't been told ANYTHING! 

Again......When can we expect to have our serious issues (DPS, stances, ability bugs, balancing with other classes, tanking ability) addressed?  Tell me to wait a month, or a week, dont tell me soon.  Don't tell me "I don't know" either.  Make a date, pick a month thats only for monks and just DO it!

I'm just going to give you a scenario that drove the point home to me of how poor the class is at the moment.

I am a semi hardcore player with interests in Adv and Crafting spheres.  My wife on the other hand is a casual player.  We chose our classes to compliment each other so that I could two box her when she isn't able to be online to play.  I chose a Monk and she.. a Shaman.

I am a level 31 Drunken Monk and she is a 30 Shaman geared toward buffs(not sure of the name of the stance - she gets a great dex/haste buff though).  For equipment, I have all gear but arms and shoulders I beleive that are above my level.. some by a lot.  She, on the other hand, has a few pieces that are above her level and mostly either at or below her level.  Here's the scenario.

Near NT, there is a cliff area that are the home to Cliff Trolls.  They are level 32-34 3dots.  We both chose a level 33 3 dot to test with.  We both only used buffs that we had and no help from the other person.  She managed to kill her mob with about 20% energy left and 80% health.  To get ready for my fight, I did a few things.  I medded to full Jin.. and went totally defensive.  I used Aum Liat, Drunken Stance and used a Martial Sword for extra parry %.  Mind you I did NOT have reed in the wind yet.  I managed to get my same level mob down to 92% before I was down to under 10% and forced to feign.  At least that didn't fail.

My wife was dumbfounded, although I must say I wasn't.  Now I definately expect a difference between classes and how some toons might be able to solo better than others.  This was such a polar opposite though.  So I started thinking to myself.. what if I had better gear and then stopped.  I figure I could find all level 41 armors and be maxed out on EE for adventuring.. and then stopped.  Why should I have to have armors 10 levels above me, to effectively battle creatures around my level.  Just didn't make sense.

So.. to make a long story short.. my monkly adventuring has been suspended.  I've switched over to a full time crafter until some fixes go in.  Stance fixes are great to hear about, but make no mistake.. that is not by any means the end of our class problems.  I love my class.. I just hope to be able to play it some day with the effectiveness it deserves.

I feel your pain Rixen, i feel your pain...........

maybe the problem is the devs dont know how weak we are.  Do anyone of them at all even THINK about the monk class, let alone play it?

I am new to the monk genre - I have always been a tank in MoGs.  I am also a lurker on your forums and I must say...

Thanks, for all the work the majority of you are pursuing. 

Like I said, I am new to the VG monk, only lvl 19 - and to me (duoing with my cleric wife) the monk seems bad ass.  I can yank aggro off her in times of danger, and FD it back to her when she is full hp again and my crits seem godly - esp as compared to my 19 ranger or 15 war (sic).

Anyways - I have noticed quirks with the monk that seemed lackluster or just plain broke (hp regen is really slow).  It is great knowing that there is an aggressive, active community looking out for those of us that just cant make the time to keep Devs in a full nelson until things get resolved.

/sic balls, chopper.

-=D=-

If we're fixed properly, monks will be badass.

Nothing says badass like a flying kick to the face.  :coolsmiley:

I was just double checking this on test, dragon stance and secrets are stacking

(http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/7/4/8/f_StuffStackim_f0d00ce.jpg) (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img03&img=/7/4/8/f_StuffStackim_f0d00ce.jpg)

Well, I will hold off judging whatever fixes get tossed our way until they hit live (unfortunately I am actually holding off playing Vanguard until then as well). I certainly hope they plan on doing more than stances though, because we certainly need more than that to get us where we should be...and I am pretty sure you understand that Quinn.

I suppose you gotta deal with all the horrible PvP bugs atm too right Chunli?  Tharidon is a pvp server?  100% /agree as usual.  I'm so sick of dragon monks being utter garbage that I'm gonna re-roll to drunken to try it out (i'd be a sellout if I went harmonious :p).  I noticed that our AE's seem really buggy lately.  Certain areas, (shidreth mining caves, deep swamp mantis caves), completely prevent ae's from working.  You can click it, it takes your endurance, yet you deal no damage.

Stance fixes alone are not enough to make Monks (especially dragon, which imo is the most gimped of the 3 styles) even close to comparable to other classes.  We need more concrete evidence of meaningful changes besides dragon proc finally stacking with secrets.

Yea, Tharridon is FFA PvP. Although the PvP aspect of this game is quite possibly the worst I have ever seen, I do like the ability to wipe a group of people that are dumbasses. Granted the best PvP group atm is basically a group of necros and shaman, I hope that eventually (after they fix all the class issues) PvP gets some real attention.

Hopefully we see some real fixes. I sincerely hope that getting looked at does not stop with stances.

Whoa time out buddy!  You don't have to reroll completely you can go to Khal and do the style quest change, so you don't have to completely make a new monk.  Just do the style quest over again!  I'd hate for you to waste a character slot and go from 1-15 again, lol!  Just do the style quest to change styles and test out another style.

I also noticed our AE's weren't working in Shildreth caves.  Tried a bunch last night and none of them were working.