Vanguard Monks

In the post-patch thread here, Talisker mentions "good luck finding your new abilities"

http://www.vanguardmonks.com/option,com_smf/Itemid,27/topic,446.msg2073/#msg2073

Anyone find any yet?  I've been swamped with school work before spring breaks so I haven't had the chance to get on much.

Jaxinor 42 dragon style (/yawn)

4 levels since then and nope

I don't know, maybe is coincidence or an aspect of monk rescues that I was just unaware of, but...

When someone in my party screams in pain (i.e. their health goes low, less than 25% or something like that), my finishing abililities "light up" (thier outline shimmers in the UI) and I can use them seemingly regardless of previous abilities used.  These seem to chain because as long as the party member's health remains low, other abilities light up after using the first.

I was thinking that this might be how our new abilities are activated.  If so, they might be similar to Disciple endowment chains.  The unfortunate part is that the chain goes away when the party member is healed, so I've never "finished" one, if they are indeed endowment chain-like.  So unless your with either a really good healer (who leaves your party member unhealed on purpose for you to chain) or a really crappy healer (who doesn't notice a party member in desperate need for a heal), we may never know.

If any of this is true, it's the same issue as with gaining a Paladin Virtue points, really.  With healers not having a complete heal, there's just no incentive for them to allow someone's health to get that low on a consistant basis like there was in EQ.  They are being mana efficient when they heal their defensive at 50% life.

Anyway, I'll make an effort to look through the combat logs if/when I notice the phenomena again.

I think what this was referring to were completely new skills that you had to fight mobs to learn.  On my first toon when the game went live, I learned some paladin skills on my Dread Knight.  Of course it was bugged and later removed.  But I got a message that said something to the effect of "You have started to learn...".  This progressed to something like "You learn more about..." and so forth until you learn the skill by fighting enough of that type of mob.

So anyone know where there would be a camp of monks?

hmmm ra'jin stronghold maby? its lower level but the only place that I know of so far. maby even blighted lands, i think they may be monks too.  Again though they are pre 20.

I know of one mob that is a monk for a fact, as he uses Drunken Mastery Stance.  It is a forced Quest spawn out in RP for one of the Merc Quests.  Forget which though, the one that deals with the treasure chest.

on martok in khevenor there is a monk section that has monks in training... kind of like you would see at your monk trainer. Maybe i'll try and kill those goblins for a while and test it.

Apparently ppl have been successfully learned skills from mobs in other classes already!

well if its based off the class of the mob its not hard to find warrior, healer, ranger,psi, etc type mobs... monk type mobs are limited however it may not even be based off class type mobs at all.  Another thing is I bet it helps to have high intelligence to learn things... i have very low intelligence as I have avoided that skill all together

I've learned how to do less dps than a rogue and ranger, while having much less utility than the ranger and bard, whilst doing a slight bit more damage than a bard.

I've also learned how to forget to cast my best dps add on (Iron Hand) because its so annoying to do so, I've learned that this buff should be on an hour time limit like all other class buffs but its not and is directly related to Sigil hating this class and its players!

I've learned that my "evade" isnt very "evadsih" and even with 250+ dex I still can go fights without actually "evading" during said fight.

I've learned that in order to up my dps I have to weaponswap before each ability in order to maximize my damage. I've learned that the likelyhood of Sigil putting said weapons on a global cooldown is highly likely, thus negating this "advantage". I also learned that the will most likely do this before they actually completely fix monks.

I've learned that the weakest class in the game, which I play, continually gets overlooked each patch except for a few minor tweaks, while other classes (um Paladin for next patch) who are not that bad get more involved peeks than my class.

I've learned that this game has made me more bitter than any game I have ever played.

I would say it is based off of class of mob, because members of my guild have learned things from certain mobs, that I haven't.

Feel the same more or less. Just cancelled my account and will maybe come back in a few months...

I can now 100% confirm it is based off of class of mob.  Several members of my guild have learned new abilities by going to mobs, named of their class:  ie:  Rajin Warrior, Rajin Disciple, etc.

However, the only "monk" named mobs are Lv10-11.  Anyone have ANY ideas?

I am looking into this potential issue & am already working with Talisker to see if it's bugged. I'll post later on this.

~QTM

I was about to make a post regarding this with your name in it.  Any confirmation that monk mobs do exist over lv10, and the chunk that they exist in would be great.  That wouldn't give out entirely the secrets behind it, but would give us an idea of where do look with the 500000000 chunks out there.  Thanks QTM!

I've been told that Jahmael (sp?) the subjugator is a monk class mob.  He's a lvl 20(ish) named VIhaad guy near Donovan's roost on Qalia.  He's not in the main camp.  But, the smaller one that's closest to the bind stone.

I'll run back by him tonight and see if I learn anything from him.  I've hesitated to hog him since he's needed for a quest.

I'm by there in CIS right now.  Will try shortly and give results.

Just killed him twice, both times he casted blessings, meaning he's a pally :(

If I've told you once, I've told you a million times:  never exagerate!

Really, though, its just 149 named chunks according to the maps I've seen (75 for Thestra, 27 for Kojan, 47 for Qalia).

ok i am an idiot lol chunks what do you mean? lol  :crazy2:

Looks like its bugged. I spent a good amount of time killing mob(s) who shall not be named whom supposedly gives abilities and nada. (Read more than 1)

I have sent the reports to Tailsker and Avair to check the code out.

I'll add it to the bug list.

~QTM

edit: for spelling and content for the conspiracy theorists  :laugh:

big surprise there

Derail & Hijack

Total hijack and derail but Soluss I love that avatar... It pretty much sums up how I feel when I am at work.

We now resume our normal programming

~QTM

Quinn says "Tailsker, the monk mob that teaches monk skills is broken, I have tested it exstensively and it doesnt seem to teach."

Tailsker says "Ahh ok we will get to that at some point, however Pallies are in need of some serious help, so once we do 4 patches solely on them with some rogues mixed in and maybe a healer buff or too to melee, we will think about patching some stuff for monks, maybe."

There are Martok Fury's on Kojan that use monk abilities and attacks.

yeah i love the avatar too.. it was how i felt when trying to lead some hmmm noobs through raids in eq2 but it is now how I feel about monks.. i can say that it is getting better though(not much but some)..as for the derail and hijack well... to me im just trying to be sarcastic/humorous as apposed to my previous passionate rants... i think its better no?

however it wasnt totally a derail "big surprise" that our stuff dont work and the other classes does.. i dont think thats too far out of line considering we are the most broken class out there imo and they add yet something else that is broken =)  i know it will get fixed and I know you work hard for us but im just being humorous... even if im the only one that finds it funny

I am breaking this down word by word, and probably shouldn't be, but anyhow.

You said "The Mob"  does that mean only one mob in the entire game gives us an ability?

Also you said "the ability".  Does that mean we only learn one?  Where as Psi's learn over 8 (confirmed so far from in-guild psi)?

i doubt it, i would hope there is more then just 1 mob.. as far as 1 ability, unless a dev lied I saw a post stating that each class will have ATLEAST 3 abilities they can learn

Well he did say THE mob and THE ability :(

Vazerai, I really hope that was meant to be humor, because if it was at all serious you need to take a step back and look at the reality of the situation we find ourselves in. 

I spent a year of beta and two years plus after release being the scout team lead in DAoC looking at exactly this issue for my class and I know what Quinn and the devs are going through.  At least Talikser agrees that there is an issue, so Quinn and the rest of us aren't in the position of needing to convince them that there's some issues with the class performance, and needing to gather all the raw data ourselves like I needed to do with scouts.

DPS being low is one of the hardest issues to balance correctly.  Is it a) base damage all around, b) base damage rate of increase, c) specials damage, d) specials rate of fire, e) weapon damage, f) weapon speed, g) scaling of damage against higher/lower level/dot mobs, or h) some combination of the above?  This takes some extensive testing and statistics to figure out, done at a variety of levels and with all three monk types, with at least 200 combats against a variety of foes in each level/style combination in order to get an accurate feel for the statistics.

Once that's figured out, we need to determine how to fix the issue, knowing that a later adjustment to any of these (ie:  new equipment being added by the crafting team or questing teams) may unbalance the class again.  Trust me, its much better to take the time to figure it out once, than to get a fix that wasn't right and swing on the pendulum between chewtoy-for-mobs and every-other-class-yelling-for-nerfs which you just know will eventually get handed out.  If we can't get it right the first time, its better to take a couple patches increasing one variable at a time in gradual steps to get where you should be, rather than trying for a multi-pronged fix that makes the class overpowered.  As much as I'd love to be in the current position of rangers fighting three-dot mobs two or more levels higher than my character, that will lead to a nerf that leaves you behind the curve instead of right where you should be, and in 7 years of gaming experience in MMOGs, the nerf always lasts longer than the overpowered period.

So yes, continue to raise issues and bugs.  Provide details and data to support the bugs and issues if you want to see them fixed earlier (hard data that may be of personal or comparitive nature, not anecdotal evidence).  However, whining like the quote above, while it may be meant as humor, really isn't productive at all and will be taken by someone (me perhaps?) as a feeling of depression.  I was strongly tempted to suggest you go play an alt for a while, perhaps a ranger even, but I'm really hoping that your post was tongue-in-cheek and not a serious sign of burnout/'depression regarding your character.

I missed this question earlier...

If you look at many of the maps on the net, for instance click on your continent of choice on   GamePressure's Maps (http://vanguard.gamepressure.com/world_of_telon_map.asp), you will see that the world is divided into named squares.  Each named square is a chunk.  They are also why you sometimes pause as you are running; you just crossed a chunk boundary.

Crossing chunks in VG:SoH is more seamless than zone boundaries in EQ or changing districts in CoH/CoV, but not as smooth as the zone  transitions in DAoC or EQ2.

I see well know i get it and I am getting more VG smart lol, so what chunks have been looked at for abiltys? if anyone knows

I'm very curious as to what QTM's response is going to be to my question, if he answers :(

Pssst... Apoco I  edited my original reply just for you

lol quinn  :crazy2:

Well I think it would be cool I just wish they had a database of the monk mobs.

<3 QTM.  You know I love you man!  Anyhow, could you give us some kind of clue as to where to look?  As in lvl range and continent?

That Thread reminds me of a Patchnote saying: Monk - Form of the Cloud Dragon now grants invisibility
Is that a hidden Skill or did i just not learned it as a lvl45 dragonmonk?

It is not hidden, you need to be level 46 to learn it.

Anyone find anything after patch?

Nothing in river valley so far.. thats about as far as i've gotten today.

I would try Major Briggs in the Seawatch Cost Arena. This guy looks to be the closest to a monk NPC I have seen so far, and from the animations on his attacks he might be. Pre-Patch I was unable to learn anything from him, not sure if our abilities are fixed or not. He's a 5 dot mob so fighting him one on one after today's patch he nearly knocked me into next week. If anyone has an update it would be nice.

Quinn any news on this? Are we actually able to learn new skills now or is it still bugged?
Will we see a patch note about it or will it just be sneaked in if it is not fixed yet?

Agreed, whats going on?

I logged in and gave it a whirl. I did NOT get any "Learning" messages from the various mobs that give the learned abilities.

I'll get an update on this one ASAP

~QTM

What level character are you using Quinn?  The guildies that have learned things from mobs lv 20-38, were over 42 when they learned them, and people same class, lv 40/41 could not.

Just to clarify... the learned abilities just "happen" at some point while fighting certain mobs? Or do you have to do something special to learn them (like we have to meditate to learn abilities)?

My alt ranger learned a freeze ability off a random mob by the time he was lvl 4 .. it just happend and big read letters on the screen told me I learned a new ability... /shrug

You'll get something like: "You have begun learning New Ability Name Here." poping in both chat and in middle of screen. It's pretty hard to miss once you do; there's also a sound tied to it, same as when training iirc.

On live I am 35-ish checked the "Reed in the Wind" mobs. On Test I can be any level I want MUHAHAHAHA! didnt get any updates there either.

So until they push it to test  *meh*

I've sent IM to Talisker looking for infoz but nothing yet.

~QTM

Thanks for the info QTM!  Gratz on your new levels!

Thanks for the heads up :)

as far as the ranger goes.... that freeze your talking about is not learned from mobs. The way you learn freeze is perform a "combo" of skills. the freeze was learned by using the freeze attack ability twice in a row. Another one is a fire DOT that is performed by using cripple, freeze sword thing, and fire sword thing... doing that creates a fire DOT on the mob and the combo is put into your general abilities tab so you can remember how to do it.

I have a ranger, rogue, shaman, and monk... and the ranger is the only one ive noticed these combos on.

I spoke with Aviar today I've been told it's fixed but has not made it's way to test / live server. I'll keep ya updated.

~QTM

Ah thanks for that info... just seemed to be because I was fighting a mob and it stated "you have learned ability ..."

grr.  Thanks for the update. :)

I've been swamped with RL work so I have not been able to check the test server to see if our fix for this has been pushed to test. I should be able to do this tonight

I'll update this thread later tonight.

~QTM

Update;

Learned abilities are working on test it just didnt get documented..  :) :)  My only hint regarding these are that learned abilities will be obtained by level appropriate content. (e.g. do not rush off to the rajin stronghold to beat down level 14 mobs for a level 26 ability.)

Happy hunting

~QTM

Can we send money bribes? Chocolate? Kittens? Nude pictures, for more info?  :angel:

I like the way you think.

Although that part about kittens is rather puzzling.   ???

Ok I know you cant give out specifics but... say there was a lvl 10 thing we could learn ... does it get upgraded to level appropraite?  Meaning if it never gets upgraded but would still be useful at say level 35... do i need to hunt level 10 mobs to get it?

Anyone have any Updates Post patch on if our learned skills are still broken?

From what I have seen on test the learned abilities are of a defensive nature and not an attack so there wouldn't be a scaling issue. I'll poke around some to do some double checking. Depending on what I find out and can actually share I'll give you more detail.

~QTM

Found one (dunno if already discovered):

3dot and 4dot spiders around TK
you have to be at least lvl 26:

Reed in the wind (i think that was the name)
40 END
+50% dodge for 10 sec
no cooldown

desc: You bend and twist like a reed in the wind, making you a very difficult target to  strike, increasing your dodge by 50% for 10 sec

Thank you!

Awesome thanks :)

Does that mean I'm going to have to solo Lv 50 mobs to gain an ability?

I meant level appropriate for the ability e.g. level 26 ability comes from level 26-ish mobs /bonk


~QTM

This is indeed great news.  My 2 questions are 1) where is "TK"? and 2) is there any higher level abilities or are we stuck with one at lvl 26?

Trengal Keep is far north/northeast of New Targonor.

I am guessing we need to find level 36ish mobs to teach us Reed In the Wind 2, and level 46ish mobs for Reed In the Wind 3 then?

Ok, Trengal Keep.  Hmm, why would we be learning monk abilities from spiders?  Any idea if we need to now start looking for higher level spiders for upgrades? 

Also, is Reed in the Wind the only ability we are able to learn?

Could someone clarify if it is the 3-dot or 4-dot spiders in Trengal? Just wondering if the further ones are 4-dot instead of 3-dot it would be a lot less mobs to check at level 46. Thanks for any info :)

3 and 4 dot spiders work

Trying to remember where I killed level 46 stuff. Tehatamani Harbor maybe? maybe the human mobs outside the city of Rahz Inkur. Think there are also mobs in Fallen Cove that are 46? What level is the stuff in Forgotten Balttlefield? Going to start running around tomorrow checking on the level 46 stuff I guess unless someone else finds it.

Actually, Quinn, do we need to learn Reed In the Wind 2 before learning 3? Would hate to be testing stuff out when I need to play with lvl 36 mobs 1st.

I was gonna go look around a bit since healer had to log early.  Let you know if I find anything.

Reed of the Wind 2
40 endurance
50% dodge bonus
13s duration

Vile infesters in Dargun's.

Thanks Jaxinor :)

So now that some have Reed in the Wind I am asking:

How do you use that spell? :o

For me, I got no real use for it right now :'(.
It costs too much to keep it up as a "buff", and it is too unreliable as a saver when I'm in trouble.
Right now, putting 40 END into damage makes more sense to me, regardless if at tanking or soloing.
What I would prefer would either be a:
- 15% dodge @ ~15 END with a 1min reuse to have a short duration buff
- 75% dodge @ ~15 END with a 10min reuse to have a life-saver.

What do you guys think?

I'm gonna go get it!  Umm our counter attacks are free?  If u dodge, you get free damage... so it sounds good to me!

It's a solo toy, and a remnant of the old evasion system (it's rather likely to be tuned down, I'm at 75% evasion currently with it - and then diminishing return on high evasion has already eaten up 10%).
However, since our 100%+ dodge ability is on a 15 second cooldown (which to be fair is rather decently balanced - if it was made consistant with every other class which has a likewise ability and not only added to the Monks), this allows you to solo and produce a rather insane amout of counterattacks - which deal a decent chunk of damage.
But to be fair, I rather have the offensive power that would allow me to come out of a fight with 80%+ health than spending 2-3 the time being defensive and exciting at 80%+. It somehow dosen't fit the "offensive fighter" archetype. ~

40 endurance is steep, sure, but for presumably 16 seconds at rank III, that's way cheap.
Have just gotten the rank II, will have to try it out offensivly (auch at endurnace cost!)

I definetely wouldn't limit it to a solo toy.  I tanked 90% of the content I've done thus far for my group and I could see a lot of use for this.  Me and ranger buddy were duoing green/blue 4 dots like cake with this spell.  I'd equip tranquility, put up aum ti, and keep Reed in the Wind up and I didn't get touched (~75% evasion).  32 endurance ( w/ aum ti) isn't too bad when you consider your gonna be autattacking/counterattacking a lot from all the dodge/parrying.  Good for long pulls also.

But, I agree w/ Leishu.  I'd rather have a more potent offensive ability.  But I think it's pretty good given the way our class is operating right now.  And yes, give other classes (Ranger!) a timer on there gauranteed dodge ability.  I watched our healer go do and I didn't have a stone to pop him mid fight.  The ranger took agro and chain parried the mob until it was dead, which was like 40% of it's health yet.  It was pretty hilarious to watch though, I will admit.

Since I need offensive stance to compete with agro unless it's skeletons (where I would use it anyhow ;p) or the group is several levels below me, the cost would be 52 endurance (which is a bit) unless I want to micromange by stance shifts (which does get a tad annoying with the duration).
However, using defensive stance and Reed in the Wind, I wouldn't be tanking - my agro would be far below of any competition.
But you have a point, it's decent in small group aswell, it definitly decreses downtime and risks.

Any idea of the level and dots of these, and the level of the area?

They are around 34-35, the 4 dot versions (can't remember name) work aswell. Dargun is Dargun's Tomb in the northeast of Thestra.
If you're highlevel, I would recommend picking up Reed the Wind I as it for sure helps keeping speed up when killing 4 dots (they still hurt!)

I assume your harmonious then?  I'm dragon so I can't relate to having increased endurance costs.

Yes.

Cool, thanks.  Anything found in Qualia?  On a PvP server its not so easy getting around there...

from what it sounds like, they are on spiders.  I would try the spidey camp near CIS.  You could also try the one in RV

Quinn, lets hear if we learn our abilities from a specific mob, or if there are multiple places to learn Reed In the Wind 1, 2, and 3. IE the spiders in Ruins of Trengal Keep and xx mob in xx zone for Reed In the Wind 1. Vile and putrid infestors (roaches btw) in Darguns Tomb and xx mobs in xx zone for Reed In the Wind 2. Same for Reed In the Wind 3.

Also, is Reed In the Wind 3 off of humaniods, insects, or animals?

There are mobs in Qalia and Thestra that can give the abilities (Didn't ask about Kojan as content peters out before 26 before it picks back up in the 40s)

The mob that teaches the abilitiy is not limited to the Kingdom of the Spiders either

~QTM

I guess its up to the rest of the monk community to go out and fight every mob at every level and report back to here what they find.   :'(

Reed in the Wind III is supposedly a lvl 46 Skill, thus learned from lvl 46 mobs. If there are any Monks 46 and above that have either noted or can remember what 46+ mobs they have fought and list them, it would help eliminate and flesh out the mobs that teach the next rank.

For a List of lvl 46 mobs to attempt, http://vg.mmodb.com/bestiary/level-46/

Aren't we supposed to have 3 learned abilities?  Or did this just turn out to be 3 rankes of 1 ability for monks?  Quinn?

Oh and i got updates for Reed in the Wind II from the little beetles in the room very close to the beginning.  The one that the quest npc's are off of.  In Dargun's.

Problem is, you would have to include mobs from like 42-46, seeing how the little roaches in Darguns are 34 - 36. That is a lot of mobs to try to learn stuff from, especially w/o a healer (and for me on a FFA PvP server). It is pretty dumb that they put this in so late IMO, as I XP'd in the areas we get Reed In the Wind 1 and 2 from. Same goes for wherever Reed In the Wind 3, theres only so many places it could be.

Blighted Lands (the 44-46 4 dots near the portal)
Fallen Cove
Tehatamani Harbor
Temple of Tehatamani
Ancient Port Warehouse
Gorgalog
Deep Swamp
Rahz Inkur (mobs outside the city)
Tar Janishir
Jathred's Twist
Ancient Battlefield

There's probably more than that, that's just what I came up with off the top of my head.

I'm guessing APW, outside of it, all those wierd ass creatures. 
I'm omw there now to check.  Nothing outside of Rahz seemed to be monkly to me, but I can check there again later.

I Checked most mobs outisde of Rhaz Inkur, but I didn't go get rankII first so I'm not sure if that would keep me from learning rankIII.  Someone in my group mentioned they saw mobs casting it and they 'thought' it was in Nusibe Necropolis so that'll be the next place I check.

I wasn't aware spiders (rank 1) and roaches (rank 2)  were Monkly  ;)

I can confirm that some of the skeletons in Nusibe (4 dot side) do have monk animations for attacks. They are however lvl 48 and at the time I was only 46 so I may have been too low to learn an ability. Ill update later on today maybe.

I see alot of places to learn theses abilities seem to be on Thestra. Im currently wandering around on Qualia, any insight as to if i can learn them here ?  ???

I actually learned reed in the wind I about a month and a half ago when i was in my twenties as a harmonious monk.. and have had it since then despite switching to dragon @ 50 - strange. As for 46+ monk mobs I've yet to find any and most certainly havent learned the third skill.

Anyone know where to get the monk lvl 46 skill that gives you invis + levitate?  Is it one of these "learned" abilities or do you purchase it somewhere? Quest maybe?  What is it called?

It's called Aspect of the Spirit Dragon and is a level 46 Dragon Style aum ability

I TOTALLY fell in love with Reed. Together with the lvl 30 Aum (even though it does cost more end for the skills) I solo 3 dots even without too many troubles and without having to heal (unless I am really unlucky). That's a huge increase in fun factor for me. Wasn't able to test it in group situations yet.

Starting with jin surge and our dragon dot I concentrate on counterattacks since they go off insanely. I can practically chain cast them and not lose that much endurance if at all. So it's actually quite good to balance between specials, iron hand and counterattacks for end regen in between.

Thanks Jojo for the info. :)

I don't suppose drunken or harmonious get a lvl 46 aum do they?

It is not an Aum, you learn it through Aum of the Roaring Dragon (Dragon style Aum).

35 Dragon monk here and I just learned a new ability simply by running to a camp...might have had a pally buffing me at the time also...I dont think I saw anyone else post this one yet, might have missed it.

Quickening Jolt - Increases your damage 100% for 6 secs
5 min refresh

Is it me or is that rather worthless - 5 min refresh for 6 secs!!!!!!!! Thats one hit! One thats it! Can someone please tell me what the devs are smoking cause that stuff must be damn good.....

And while I'm ranting why is FD and counters attached to our global cooldown?

You got buffed by a Bloodmage.

So has anyone uncovered any other real spots to locate this training over the weekend? 

For those that dont know, you should get a message in blue that states "You begin to learn..." when you kill a certain mob.  After killing more and more of the same type you get more messages along the same line until you finally learn the new ability and it shows up in your training book.

Reed In the Wind 1


Reed In the Wind 2


No one has said anything about Reed In the Wind 3, or alternate locations to 1 and 2. Reed In the Wind 3 was a lvl 46 ability, so the mobs that teach it are going to be around level 46.

I understood that part.  I was hoping to see if there were other locations that our skills can be learned except off of one set of mobs per level of skill, and hopefully a little more geographically diverse.

I guess the question to QTM would be, are there more then one set of mobs per skill level that teach it?

Yes.


I doubt people are going to go out and about trying to find rank 1 or 2 from different mobs than the ones that are found though. People that actually know of this site would probably keep us updated if they find other mobs that teach ranks 1 and 2, but most people will probably just go to TK for 1, and Dargun's for 2, especially since those are decent spots to go to at that level anyway.

so we only get reed in the wind i havnt heard anyone say or got any of the other 2 abilites, thought if people looking for other mobs for reed in the wind make sure to check on other abilities as well, i am working on it too ;D

We don't have to learn 1 and 2 to get 3 do we?  Or have to learn 1 to get 2? 

Good question.. I was just going to go learn the second version of this without doing the first. But if we can't.........

I am going to go with...Sigil chose bad wording when they said we could learn 3 skills, they should have said 3 levels of the same skill. I am not speaking "gospel", just my guess.


I asked the same thing but did not get a direct response. It would be good info to have and I do see QtM lurking around...hint hint.

I learnt reed in the wind II without having reed in the wind I

Cheers

btw guys reed in the wind is all the evasion we need so evasion stances wont help dragon monks get the  most benefit since 65% evasion is the defence cap. you will never get more i am a dragon monk i use it and i get 64.99% evasion so there might be a small issue over this.........

Is this when you mouse over your defense stat?  Is this an invisible cap?  When i use it buffed and in Eternal Crane stance while using a martial sword i can hit about 79.5%.


I have 2 counters that are not attacked to any cooldown whatsoever.  Also i fail to understand why FD should not be on a global cooldown?

Ok so do harmonious monks get any sort of equivalent utility style ability -learned through using our aum- at level 46?  Is that just a skill if its 'not an Aum'?  Is it a stance?  Thanks in advance for clearing this up!

It is not a stance, just a self levitate/stealth (ie can see with detection, and like other stealths can fall off as soon as it is applied), and no idea if you get something like it at 46. It really is not that useful, too unreliable, and at 8 jin not exactly something you can reapply quickly if it drops early when youre exploring.

65% is the mitigation cap, not avoidance.

Avoidance is a diffrent beast. At low ratings, you get a boost, at higher rating you get a penalty. While I lack a martial sword, I'm able to reach the mid 70ies (can't remember exactly) even though dodge + parry should be in the mid 80'ies.
Likewise, without using anything, my dodge + parry is 3-4% under the given evasion value.
While there might be a cap (simply a dramatical increase in the diminishing return) I have yet to see it.

Sorry for the confusion on my wording, what I meant by that was it was learned thru the Aum, not that it is an Aum heh. my bad.

good, so we dont have a cap :)

Well, some numbers.
Stats: Level 46, Dexterity 391, +21 parry, +46 dodge

1. Buffs: None
18.90% melee evasion (7.74% dodge, 7.47% parry)
Diffrence: Bonus of 3.69%

2. Buffs: Aum Ti
23.28% melee evasion (7.74% dodge, 12.47% parry)
Diffrence: Bonus of 3.07%

3. Buffs: Eternal Crane Stance
32.34% melee evasion (15.74% dodge, 15.47% parry)
Diffrence: Bonus of 1.13%

4. Buffs: Crane + Aum Ti
36.34% melee evasion (15.74% dodge, 20.47% parry)
Diffrence: Bonus of 0.13%

5. Buffs: Reed the Wind
62.85% melee evasion (57.74% dodge, 7.47% parry)
Diffrence: Penalty of 2.36%

6. Buffs: Aum Ti + Reed the Wind
64.86% melee evasion (57.74% dodge, 12.47% parry)
Diffrence: Penalty of 5.35%

7. Buffs: Eternal Crane + Reed the Wind
72.49% melee evasion (65.74% dodge, 15.47% parry)
Diffrence: Penalty of 8.72%

8. Buffs: Aum Ti, Reed in the Wind, Eternal Crane.
74.11% melee evasion (65.74% dodge, 20.47% parry)
Diffrence: Penalty of 12.10%

Quick conclusion: The bonus drops rather linear (someone better at math can probably correct me) down at least down to 62.85% (so one could actually assume the soft cap is at 65%) but then the penalty goes really rampart.

Updated conclusion: It appears the the real penalty starts around 60% and then VERY rampartly increase. I would suppose the actual cap (where any bonus has such a heavy diminishing return it reach 0) is around 80%, maybe tops 85%. Some harmonious and/or drunken with a good martial sword should be able to reach it.
There does not appear to be a cap for the indidivudal skills involved - the diffrence between example #5 and #6 would prove this.

Hmm, patch prevented me from getting numbers for Crane + Reed and Aum + Reed - which would help determining the soft cap.

so the cap is on  dodge and parry, can you try aum liat + crane then reed

Don't think order matters to be perfectly honest, I justed listed the buffs in the way I recalled them being on, not used. Obviously - I always use Reed last because of the limited durations to take notes, where stance and aum has quite much better durations. ;)

Also, now that I actually read your sentance over and understood the question:

Base + Aum Ti + Reed + Crane:
7.74 + 0.00 + 50.00 + 8.00 = 65.74.

Of course, it might be cutting off at a certain %, but that dosen't explain the generally decaying bonus (unless there's an UI bug - naturally). Someone with a big martial sword could probably present numbers where dodge isn't as extreme (ie high evasion with a large influx of parry, rather than the rather low I have) and that would solve that mystery.

Updated it some ~ appears the soft cap is at ~60%.

Drats i thought it was great gettting 80+ percent with aum liat, reed, martial sword and eternal drunken swagger. But 65 is the actual cap? A slap in the face for drunken then tyvm!

So... anyone found any other loations for 1 and 2, or 3 anywhere?

I checked Nusibe tonight between zone in and godking room and nothing. :(

I have been through Razad and the areas around it and nothing as well  9-(

The soft cap is somewhere between 60-65% either from stacking issues or because of a cap. Dodge and parry have seperate caps (to an extent) example: if you have a lot of +dodge, instead of gaining more +dodge, and piece that gives +parry will provide a greater benefit. This also applies to which Aum you use, dodge or parry.

Absolute maximum I've able to gain so far was 86% (with 1min evasion buff from drunken master quest), after a little bit more gearing I've been able to maintain around 84% (buffed). Incredibly hard to acheive much more then 76% (requires sacrificing of stats for +evasion/+dodge/+parry). After around 70% you seem to only gain about 1/3 of the benefits for evasion buffs / gear. I imagine this keeps scaling to the point where 95-100% will be impossible.

With that said, many factors apply beyond the evasion given to you in character screen. It applies to auto attack damage of equal level mobs. Abilities often have a higher (or lower) accuracy rating which will upset your percentage, as well as mobs over your level, as they will have level advantage on you. Same reason why your evasion/mitigation % goes down when you level, it rescales to the next level of mobs.

So even with 100% evasion, expect to take some melee damage. I think Reed in the Wind was a great fix for monks role as puller / offtank. Has a good cost / benefit relationship and something like this was definately needed. Great job by the dev team to give us a useful ability and thank you.

Qucik question regarding learning Reed of The Wind I/II -

Do I have to learn Reed in The Wind I first, or can I just skip to killing mobs that I can learn Reed in The Wind II from?

Thanks,

Forbin

45 Dragon Monk, Hilsbury Server

Cant say if Reed in the Wind I is required for RitW II, but it is useful for training it anyways even if it isnt. I had to go by myself to Dargun's to learn it so it was very helpful to have. You can go into defensive stance then opt for total defense versus one of the roaches with Reed in the Wind and Swaying Step, tank for a while until you get the "Your knowledge of Reed in the Wind has advanced" then feign death the mob. Jump up and go rest if needed, then repeat the practice until you advance or complete your lesson, killing the mob isnt needed. So can just keep practicing on a single roach. It usually takes like six updates or so before you actually learn the skill.

There is a lot of talk on here about RoTW and mitigation BUT has anyone found any other skills to learn yet besides RoTW???

Lets get this thread back to it's original focus please.  Learned abilities and where.

I think it has been stated before, but I am pretty sure we only learn Reed In the Wind. RItW 1 =  spiders in RoTK. RItW 2 = roaches in Dargun's.

Cool thanks.  I just learned RitW 1 last night off the Meteor Crawlers at Ruins of Trengal Keep area.  They were level 24 ( 3 dot ) spiders.  Like stated previously, I just used swaying step skill and stayed in defensive stance while allowing the spider to beat on me for a bit until I got the messege.  FD, rinse and repeat. Learned the skill after about 6 updates.

Question:  Anyone found where to get RitW 3 yet???

I've heard rumors RiTW 3 is learned in graystone when you are lvl 46........ unable to verify.  sorry all i can offer now is hearsay =(     The rumor is all classes can learn an ability in graystone at either 42 or 46, im 42 (but i dont' tank) and i have yet to learn anything.

I dont think we actually need to tank mob to learn from it.  I was in a group with a Sorc who learned his ability in JT by simply fighting the mobs.

Hmm.....I should be heading into Greystone this week and I'm level 46 now so will inform if I find anything. :)

Awesome, im pretty sure 46 is right because you learn the first at 26 i think, so every 10 lvls you get the next one sounds right to me!   ;D

Hmm did greystone weapon and was there for 18 hours, none of the mobs taught me anything. It has been more than a week though so maybe it went live in this patch.

Planck
50 DM
Florendyl

Is there any place on Qalia where I could learn Reed in the Wind I? I could probably go to Trengal Keep, but I'm not looking forward to an hour of travel...

It's all just simple mathematics.  There is no bonus or penalty involved.  There is no artificial soft cap.

1 - [1 * (1-avoidance1) * (1-avoidance2) * (1-avoidance3)]

Then you just have to be aware of the inherent 5.00% avoidance that we get.  If for some reason another avoidance factor is involved just add another block for avoidance4.

Your Case 1.

1 - [1 * (1-0.0774) * (1-0.0747) * (1-0.05)]

Your mathematic avoidance would be 0.1890 or 18.90%

Your Case 8.

1 - [1 * (1-0.6574) * (1-0.2047) * (1-0.05)]

Your mathematic avoidance would be 0.74115 which should round to 74.12% but the game is just displayig to 74.11% rather than rounding.

If you don't understand the mathematics behind this, I'll use realworld numbers to illustrate what is happening.

We'll use your case 8 as an example.  Lets assume you stood there while something attacked and hit you 100,000 times.

You would dodge 65.74% of the hits.  This means 65,740 hits would be dodged.  Which means 34,260 hits went through.

Of those 34,260 hits, 20.47% of them will get parried.  This means 7,013 of those hits will get parried.  So after being dodged and parried only 25,247 hits are going through.

Of those 27,247 hits, another 5% will be avoided with your inherent avoidance.  This means 1,362 more hits will be avoided, leaving a grand total of 25,885 hits get through.

Or in other words you avoided 74,115 hits out of 100,000.  A grand total of 74.115%

It doesn't matter which way you apply the various avoidance numbers it'll all come out the same.

Regards,
Croaker

Oh, nice, that does explain quite a bit. Thanks!

See kids!  you WILL use that useless math later on in life!!!  :D

Getting back on track...

QTM: Can you verify that RITW 3 is in game, or is everyone just running around searching for nothing?  Please let us know.

When I add up my % dodge-61'ish  and % parry-34'ish, it equals 95% (this is shown in character screen). Yet my Melee Avoidance combined is only 84.06%. Pretty sure there is still a cap in place.

I can vouch for this.
Was there for over 25 hours total, tanking most of the time, and never learned anything.

Quoting some warrior friends: they are not able to learn an updated ability if you don't have the lower version of it.
It stays grayed out even though you might get the "you start to learn"-message.

Hmm, a warrior friend of mine learned rank II without having rank I and it worked fine. ~

Well you can learn it but not use it without having the lower rank. My mistake of not being more precise sorry :)

Hrm, it appeared to work for him (didn't hear any bitzing) still ~ might not be anymore though, not sure.

Actually I used Reed 2 for a long time and never had 1. I got it recently but not while i was in Graystone. If you must have the lower one first its new.

Planck
50 DM
Florendyl

It's definitely like that since today then. My lvl 42 warrior guildie almost went insane because the skill was grayed out until he actually went back to get the the first rank - then it was usable for him.

Has anyone refined the levels needed to get the various TitW levels?
ie. If the mob that teaches it is XX level do you need to be the same level or higher? or what?

you need to be:

level 26 to get RItW 1
level 36 to get RItW 2
?? level 46 to get RItW 3 ??

Aye, and it's not difficult or time consuming to learn it either you just have to keep a few things in mind.

1.  There appears to be a fairly long timer on how often a mob can use RITW.

2.  If you are hitting the mob, they will generally use it in less than 30 seconds, and I've never seen it take longer than 60 seconds.

Once I figured those things out, I was able to learn RITW in about 10 minutes while needing 8 messages of "You are learning..." to learn it.

Just start attacking a spider.  As soon as you get the Learning message, FD.  Move on to a different spider.  Repeat process.  You should easily be done in 10-15 minutes tops.  If you choose to continually do the SAME spider, then be prepared for a long camp.  As the timer on mob use appears to be around 5ish minutes or more.

Regards,
Croaker

Still waiting on confirmation that ROTW3 is in game and learnable...

Thank you for the Info!

I just want to confirm that I learned Reed in the Wind 1 from the level 25 Infineum Reflections (and the other ghostly infineum mob that's level 26) in Infineum Plateau area.  Don't know if anybody found this, but it's not just in RoTK. 

I have RitW 1 and 2 and have been unable to find 3.  Can we please get confirmation that it is even in game?

What about the Vsurog Moor on Thestra? A guildie of mine mentioned that the mantis' there or Ichtakha or whatever they are called are monk types..Anyone tested those yet? I can't test it myself since I am still a bit low for them.
Level range would be right as well (46+)

Well I'm level 45 in that area, I guess I'll let you know soon enough.

I dont see that this has anythign to do with "monk" types though.  We learned RitW 1 from spiders and 2 from cockroaches...

I know, but it was worth a shot anyway.

Was talking to a guild Sorc last night and learned that they have 3 new abilities, all different, that they can learn.  I wouldnt mind so much since RitW was awesome, but now that its nerfed...

We were told that there were 3 abilities for us.  If that 3 means 3 of the same skill then fine, but I would like to see confirmation that the 3rd skill is actually in the game.

It depends - rangers have three different abilities too - but no upgrades to them.
We have three upgrades to one ability (and I think warriors have the same as we - one ability with three upgrades).

Why they didn't do it the same for all classes.../shrug

Just Confirming that lvl23-26 Reflection and Simulacrum mobs (ghost guys) in the Infineum Plateaus give the updates for RiTW 1. Got it in about 10 minutes of killing there.

Crelax

I would like to have QTM confirm that RITW 3 is ingame and learnable, I ahve tried every mob 45+ that I could find and cannot learn it.

With all the new tomes/idols/crystals/etc dropping, I am curious if we could get word or not if we were left out. They were announced as 'spells' on the patch notes, most were group versions of buffs, but I think some classes got something new?  We as monks dont have spells, so I am just wondering if I shouldn't get my hopes up much for getting a new level 50 skill?

The Ichtakha Headhunters in Vsorog Moor are definitely monks, but I've probably killed 50 of them for quests solo and haven't gotten an update.  The search goes on.

There are apparently a few Monk "spells" from tablets etc

We got a shammy one tonight, will update if I find Monk ones.

do the spells drop randomly or only from boss mobs?

Hi,
New here but wanted to chime in. I am looking for as much info as possible on this.
I was able to learn Wind in the reeds 1 from killing Infineum Simulacrum in CIS.
(50% dodge for 10 seconds,instant cast,40 end. cost, and 2:00 refresh)
If anyone knows of any others please post em.  :)

So far we've only seen them in Rhaz (but haven't doen any other 46+ dungeon since they were patched in) Got a Bloodmage one from a trash elemental, and a Hayatet Shaman one from a named Phoenix, not sure if that was coincidence or not yet heh. We also got that bloodmage one again from another trash, so seems to be random drops, maybe some are on named or just named have higher chance or something.

If you scroll back some in this forum post you will find that others have posted info on both RitW 1 and 2,  but I will put here again as an updated version.

This is where I got mine from but there are other places too like CIS area that you can find your ability.

Reed in the Wind I - Learned from spiders ( Meteor Crawlers ) outside Ruins of Trengal Keep in Thestra. Level 24- 26 3dot or 4dot spider mobs.

Reed in the Wind II - Learned from roaches ( Vile Infestors ) just not far inside Darguns Tomb,  like in the very first small room you come to I believe. Level 36ish 3dot roache mobs.

Reed in the Wind III - Haven't found yet,  but haven't really looked in a long time either. I have a few places I'm going to check whenever I get off my lazy can. :)

I apologize for not checking the thread more carefully.

on test:

- Rahz Inkur - NPC’s in Rahz Inkur can now grant abilities via observation.
- Nusibe Necroplis - NPC’s in Nusibe Necropolis can now grant abilities via observation.


Thanks Sigil for the wild goose chase for RitW3 up til this goes live! :P

Is this specifically for Monks?  I have heard of other classes getting new abilities, outside of the scope of the original group of "found" abilities. 

I wonder because QTM never responded to the question of whether RitW 3 was in the game or not.

All classes that have energy, now have dropped spells ingame t