Vanguard Monks

So i was bored before a raid started and was looking at the rangers bow and comparing it to my new tam thi's gift.

I always wondered how they decided to itemize the range weapons and where these magical points seem to disappear to.

http://vanguard.xanadu-community.com/items.php?page=viewItem&id=334
Rng crafted bow
242-242 dmg
16dex
261 energy
354 range accuracy
195 range crit
227 range dmg
%5 chance to life tap for 130% dmg
+4% crit rate

vs ours

342-342 dmg
15 str
50 hp
45 rng acc
45 rng dmg
5 hp regen/6 sec
5% crit rate


So does the 100 extra dmg we get really =
1 less str( they have 16 dex)
211 less hp (tech they get 261 energy we get hp)
309 less rng acc
182 less rng dmg
195 less rng crit

I mean we get 0 stats from the ammo slot so its not like we get double the effect if we opt out of using the pouch and have the stars in both slots.   All in all im just wondering for a few reasons, because their arrows add dmg and range to make them just as much dmg and range as ours so im not quite sure where the balance comes in to stars.  Ill have to ask a developer next week cause maybe im missing something in the thought process. 

Devs are planning on adding ranged item slot pieces of gear for pure stat purposes to cover that exact issue, especially for the classes that have no ranged weapons at all.

But I think one of their glitches is treating bows as "2handed weapons" in terms of stats and throwing pouch as "1handed".  I agree it needs looking at.

They are also talking of making wands ranged equippable for casters...but that would also suffer from the "1hand stats" vs. "two hand" stats issue I feel.  :(


That or they're putting an absurd amount of weight into the hp regen like they do on regular crafted gear.  Nobody crafting uses that dust.  You can sac 100s of hps or other stats on crafted gear for hp regen and the result is beyond pathetically weak, much like how the end regen got the bajesus nerfed out of it...except that the hp regen was never a good deal to begin with.  I personally can't fathom what the devs are thinking when I see stuff like that.  (same with dust of armor and quite a few others where you get an utterly crappy result, who do they honestly think will look at that and say "well that was worth it!"). :idiot2:

I wouldn't expect a monk throwing a shuriken to be anywhere near the damage of a ranger firing a bow.

Ranged damage is--in my opinion--unbalanced due to everyone already having too much. Bow specialists (rangers) should be able to far out-damage the rest of the field. Not just in special abilities but it raw power.

I see this more acutely perhaps being on a pvp server, but shuriken, spears, etc are jsut too powerful as is.

Vanguard doesn't need more equalization of classes (although it certainly still needs balancing) but it needs more class distinction which was one of the original goals.

Of course that doesn't mean that an end game item should be weak for us, it should just have other properties to offer us tailored to our skillset.

The idea is not so much the damage imo but how many stats it provides, esp for classes that can equip no ranged items of any kind.  AKA bows tend to have and amount of stats associated with that of 2h weapons.

But the devs are looking into this area so it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

Im not gonna get into the logic behind an arrows dmg vs a shurikens dmg.  Last i checked it was a game and both are magical weapons :-p

That being said i dont really expect or want stars to be as good as rangers with bows, but the way items work in this game is they assign points to them based on their lvl and rareity.  T6 (lvl 50+) legendary raid gear has say 500 points.

500 points
-50 for the dmg
-75 for the hp
-100 for the stats
-125 for the effect
-150 for modifiers

Etc *made up example but you get the idea*....Im just more curious as to how we get SIGNFICANTLY less in virtually all parameters vs any bow (none of which are ranger only).   Ronmaru is right that they are 2 handers, but even doubling everything but dmg, our weapons are still significantly less in most of the fields. 

I agree 100% the point weight they give to certain attributes seems ridiculously off.  Id gladly lose 5 hp regen in favor of an extra 150 to rng acc/dmg/crit  cause thats about what it boils down to.   

On the same token theres not a single fight in the game that requires range fighting for monks so theres no NEED for more powerful ranged weapons, but it would be nice to know why ours are so far under everyone elses.

Point taken on the point allocation thing.
I don't think that existed in EQ and that is where my brain starts when i think of gear still. :)

The thing about the ranged stuff is as such - if Rangers are to do more damage, it will come from their abilities, not auto-attack damage. And ranged "auto-attack" is all we have. In essence, there is no reason the base damage on the item should be lower for us, just like there's no reason for Monks to have less stats on their weapons than Rogues - their damage advantage should come from Stalk VI and their bloodlust ability, not from the base damage of the weapons (after all, we're using fists and they're poking mobs with toothpicks  :laugh:)

Don't get me started on rangers,
They have a very similar offensive melee output to monk, yet a MUCH higher ranged output...talk about blatent imbalance...
They have defensive forms, Good group buffs, heals, mass AoE kiting skills....just to top it off..

Monks are complete gimps for ranged damage, just as ranger should be for melee, or in the very least they should be noticably weaker
Currently we parse higher due to their detaunt holding them back, which i am sure is planned to be changed.

Oh and yeh, shurikens suck, no wait! they're great!, that 0.05%crit on the wardship shurikens is a lifesaver :P

Secret of Fire still procs on ranged weapons too, this can easly add over 2k per hit!

Yeah both monks and bards that spec hard dex/int can put out some very respectable ranged damage.  Still not on par with their melee but respectable non the less.  :)

Rangers however are intended to be able to spec heavily enough into ranged to do equivalant damage to their melee.  Since I never played on past level 16 and haven't had many discussions with anyone who's tried I have no clue if anyone's accomplished this or if its remotely possible.