Vanguard Monks

 I'm lvl 40 (actually heading on 42)  already!! Ok so I'll be getting t5 crafted gear and need to know what I should put on it besides Str/dex. I'll be solo'ing a ton and at 50 going straight to raiding with that in mind what am I looking for? I am aware I might even need 2 sets, thats ok. I'm a skinner and skin alot so thats not a problem.
So lvl'ing set am I looking at a defensive set with parry dodge melee mitigation or am I going for damage?
2nd set is it needed for a raiding set or will the lvl'ing set work fine untill I start replacing stuff from raids?
thx

Depends what style really..Harmonious/drunken get Great avoidance skills and can go more dps over solid hp i think while dragon im not so sure as i have not been that style and im sure others will chime in on their thoughts.
I would say if ya plan to do any serious pulling /holding stuff 6500-7kunbuffed hp is what i would aim for on raids..rest dps based(we are a dps class after all).Flawless pariah's is a good solid raid set imo.Also you could prolly solo in this format pretty well.
Just my 2 cents

I - as a Dragon - have just received a Flawless Pariah's set from my neighborhood crafter without any added effects. It's the ideal set for pulling, IMO. Other than that, I will probably order a Flawless Cavalier's set with some added effect, though I'm not sure if I'll go for cystals of Pain (crit) or accuracy yet.

Khana, do you think "plain" pariah is better than pariah of health ?
And if not, what continental effect would be the best ?
How much unbuffed HP should i aim for APW ?
What jewelry ? Cloak ? Weapons ?
All these questions are in regards to pulling in APW

The answer is have 2 sets of armor hot keyed.

one set for pulling evasion/HP parry sword and defensive stance

one set for pure DPS  %Crit %damage % melee damage etc..

gives the option of using fd during a fight to swap gear.

you will however still die lots in APW this is just the way it is

Unbuffed hp should be about 6k, this puts you at about 10-11k raid buffed.

I personally use plain armor with no boon of health because i like the continental effects ( i use qalian i think for the heal proc, which ever it is,its the one with the heal proc)

Jewlery/cloaks ---> TOT
Weapons --> Martial staff of corruption, powered blade staff of devastation, fist wraps of striking....and parrying martial sword... (Use the martial sword for pulls, the martial staff of corruptions for 90% of fights for the debuff, and the blade staff/wraps for mobs you need high dps on)

I haven't tried Boon of Health, but I like the continental Qalian effect, too - I can now actually chain solo VT 4-dots and 5-dots... and they're 32, haha. Sounds glorious, doesn't it?

As to weapons: I prefer the Martial Sword of Scorching (Resonating crystal of Ice) because of the slow proc it gives. It goes off rather often. I'm not so convinced +Parry really does anything on gear. I've never noticed +Parry rings or earrings do a lot, so why would a martial sword?

+parry adds to avoidance for sure.,  3 identical swords other then one has +0 parry, +100 parry, +200 parry and each time i do gain a few % of avoidance when i mouse over defense

I've come to think that + avoidance (or parry or dodge) wasnt really usefull.
Should i always favour +HP over + avodance ? (again in regards to pulling).
Also, what about + mitigation gear ? how much + mitigation is worth in regards to + HP ?
Is there a lot of +HP + Mitigation gear ?
Is resist gear usefull too ?
Sorry for these questions, but crafted gear is sooo expensive that i need to choose wisely as i wont have a second chance :-/

1) If you  have to pick between 100 hp and 1% avoidance, id go for the 100 hp.  Simply because1% avoidance is based on even con 3 dot mobs.  Most apw mobs are 6 dots 3 levels higher with raid flags so that 1% isnt quite as noticable.

2)+mitigation is great but i wouldnt focus on it.  I prefer to just have 6k unbuffed hp, and that seems to be mroe then enough for any fight in game.  Ive killed kotasoth 4 times now and i dont have avoidance or mitigation gear, just regular hp and dps gear.  In short youd have to have a full suit of +3-4% mitigation a piece to be worth anything. 

3) theres not 1 hp/mitigation piece for monks in apw.

4) Resists are worthless for gear.  Raid buffs will be more then enough for any fight, just make sure who ever casts them gets them on you each time. Or that you have a class that can buff them....ie bird shaman add 10% fire mitigation and 200 fire resist i beleive

5) What i did was get a full suit of qalian armor with Dex>con>str ...puts me at about 500 str/dex/con and since i have nothing else on it i get about 100 hp a piece and sit at 6k unbuffed. 

Also....start using iron skin, it costs nothing and adds 75% mitigation, stacks with reed in the wind and find the center/magnificent drunken swagger.  If your not a drunken or harmonious, pulling apw is hard. 

is iron skin 75% or 75 points?

Its 75% and a god send when pulling Sky Pirates..merc slash eww

In terms of continental style for APW I strongly recommend thestran.  The heal procs from qualian are handy for grouping/soloing outside of it.  But the raw accuracy bonus of thestran armor makes a pretty significant different in APW fighting level 53's all the time, where as the qualian heal procs are pretty darn trivial in pretty much every situation in APW.  Getting your accuracy maxed out first for fighting level 53's ups your dps more than almost anything else.  And with thestran continental style you get a pretty solid boost towards that.

With Psi buff giving +10% accuracy and ranger giving +5%, thestran armor is completely useless in Apw. Unless your guild  doesnt have these classes at least. Regardless get a cleric in your group and have them keep "Gift of Ardor" up (20%accuracy/dmg)
With max weapon skill you have 95% hit chance vs lvl 50, and i believe you need ~7% accuracy to max out vs lvl 53.

The few pieces of crafted i used to use were: kojan for dps set (+3 to base dmg)
                                                                           qalian/boon of health for solo/tanking/pulling (heal on every hit for 50, and +8hp per piece)

In parses my guild has done, everyone is 0.95-0.98 accuracy, and i certainly don't have any thestran armor.
On my pally and cleric i got mostly thestran armor and there is no decision i regret more

I have allmost 7K hp with my pulling gear at 49 (i know i'm slow to level) and con isnt capped.
A monk guildy tried to convince me to craft some flawless pariah stuff of protection (with mitigation).
What do you think ? would the mitig from boots, shoulders legs and wrists would be worth puting aside the HPs ?
I think we should do a "Pre APW Pulling gear advices" thread with for each slot a small list of recommanded gear.
Same for "Pre APW DPS gear advices" thread :)

With raid buffs you want to be 9-10k for pulling.  I didnt ever find the mitigation gear to be necisarry. 

The funny thing is now that i have a full suit of apw gear i lost about 1k hp (no more con) so now i sit at 9.6k max buffed instead of 10.6k.

Mitigation is really only worth it if your a dragon and have no self invuln.  For harmony and drunken its worthless, 5% extra mit dont do SNARF when mobs hit for 5-10k

Actually it depends on your hp pool.

If your hps are at about 7.5k or higher mitigation starts to do more for you than hps do per gear point invested.  (obviously for tanks dealing with strike through this isn't always the case).

So if you're getting raid buffed to 8k + its a safe bet that mitigation on your gear will do more for you than hps at that stage.  This is completely ignoring the point that mitigation provides better healing efficiency (makes it easier for healers to keep you topped off with AOE heals etc.)

To look at it simply. 
5% mitigation on 7500hps is about a "free" 375 extra hps.  Pretty close to the raw hps you'd sacrifice on gear to get it.
5% mitigation on 9000hps is about a "free" 450 extra hps.  Well more than you get from the gear pieces so its a hands down better deal.

I've got about an extra 10% migitagion coming from gear and raid buff to between 8k to 9k depending on who's present.  There is no way I'd get 800 to 900 raw hps from the gear I'm getting that mitigation from.


That said if you're raid buffed below 7500hps...you definitely need to focus on getting your hps up first.  You'll get better returns.  ;)

And yeah simon, you're right on the money in retrospect.  I had never looked at the psi buffs closely.  Oh well.  ;) 
On the bright side thestran boosts damage to fire and ice...so that's always nice.  :)

Thats some sticky math:-p  Youve got the right idea, but % mitigation benifit isnt based on your hp...5% mitigation isnt the same as free hp, it all depends on how hard the mob hits.  To determine when the hp loss is worth the mitigation gain, you have to look at it as "what hp will i be left with after getting hit"

Scenario 1; Raid buffed monk with 7500 hp, + hp gear not mitigation, 5k dmg hit
5k hit leavse you at 2500 hp.  The hit took 66% of your hp, and left you with 33%

Scenario 2: Same monk as secnario 1, but now wtih 4 pieces of mitigation gear instead of hp.
Lets assume those 4 pieces add 2% mitigation each, but cost 170 hp each.  Your losing roughly 700 hp to gain 8% mitigation.

So that 5k hit now does 4600 ( 400 less), taking you from 6800 to 2200.  The hit took 68% of yur hp and left you with 32%...********** notice your now 300 hp less then you would be if you had just hp gear




Now the same thing with a 10k hp monk.
Scenario 1: Mob hits for 5k, wearing hp gear
You lose 50% of your hp

Scenario 2: Mob hits for 5k but your wearing mitigation gear, (8% more mit 700 less hp)
Mob hits for 4.6k, you are left with 4.7k.  You are left with 300 less hp then you would if you had hp gear, but also have ~7% less hp.


Even at high hp losing hp to gain mitigation % at a 1:1 ratio is a losing afair.   For mitigation to be benifical as a trade off for hp, the mitigation % needs to be twice the hp %.

Scenario 3: 10k monk, lose 700 hp to gain 16% mitigation. 
5k hit now does 4.2 (800 less), leaving the monk with 5.1k Hp.  This is the turning point at which the trade off is even.  You lose 7% hp, gain 16%, and now when you get hit once your hp if finally higher then it would have been.

It really is as simple as I laid it out.

To go by your approach however, consider that in scenario 2, your monk lost more %wise in the first hit but that's merely a matter of your choice of how many hps you feel the 8% mit would cost in gear.  The part your missing is that the remaining 32%hps on the monk with mit gear is more valuable than it would be on the monk with 33%hps left.  AKA he's also going to mitigate the next attack incoming as well.

In a nutshell the glitch in your math is that it goes with the view that only the first attack is mitigated.
Consider your setup with 10khp and 8%mit. 

Scenario 1, the monk with 10khps and no mitigation dies in two hits.  (10k -5k -5k = dead)
Scenario 2, the monk with 9300hps and 8% mitigation lives (10k -700 - 4600 -4600 = alive (barely))

So its CLEARLY more beneficial at that point to go with mit.

Additionally mit doesn't "seem" to cost 170hp per 2% I'll have to double check but I felt it tends to be more around 130-150ish?  Some peices of quested dropped jewlry seem to have mit at a good value, RI jewlrey has over 2% on a single piece.


But to put it into a more practical situation, most apw attacks are of two varieties.  Punishing attacks for very high damage, and sissy but frequent attacks.  With decent hps and/or mit you're going to typically be able to take about 2 big hits.  If your mitigating more of that it will be easier for a healer to keep you safe without peeling aggro.  AKA most healer's "big heal" with reasonable gear heals about 5kish.  If you're taking notably more than that it becomes very hard for them to keep up.  If you're taking less than that its much easier and sustainable.

If you are getting nailed with damage sheild hits, constant small aoe hits etc. more mitigated once again makes it more likely for a healer to keep you up and running easier.

But this is assuming you've got all the important stuff nailed out already.  Like having enough hps to make mit worth it.  That and, once your survival is "good enough" ... unless you tank a lot in groups you'd be better off going for more %damage/stats/crit etc.

Either way going for a lot of hps or a good amount of hps+mit will get the job done.  :)

You cant mitigate an ae unless its a melee ae.  Which most arent.

As for the hp vs mitigation.  On crafted gear the hp ranges from 130 a piece to 230 a piece.  Once you put mitigation on an armor piece ALL that hp goes POOF.  And you end up gaining (1.2- 2.3%) per piece.  I was just trying to use average numbers

You are correct most AOE are spell based, that said mitigation adds to both melee and spell thus it works on ALL AOE.

You're thinking about physical absorbtion crystals (melee mit only)

Protection adds general mitigation = mit vs all.  Hence it works peachy on AOE.

Yeah I understand the dynamics of using protection crystals (hp/energy trade off for mit, hps also range further than 230) etc.  One of my alts is L50 leatherworker.  ;)
I just didn't do the math to see how many points of hps gets converted to how much %mit.  Its likely to be a static value regardless of what piece you use.  I just didn't take the time to peg it exactly, might do that this weekend just for purposes of accuracy.  /shrug

That said I've often considered the merrit of making a few peices of spell absorbtion (head peice etc.) to use in conjunction with protection just for situations where you know in advance you'll take heavy spell damage.  (spell or melee only mitigation gives a fair amount more %mit per gear point than general mitigation does, and as you pointed out most AOE are spell based so it may be preferable to skip general mit in favor of spell mit in APW).

Of course...its damn annoying that its essentially impossible to get med crafted gear without some worthless stats on it other than pariah's for monk.  Which of course loads us up primarily on dex...there isn't a good way to get a large amount of str/int without also taking on vit/wis which does us precious little good.

Edit took a little time.  1point of general mit = roughly 2.7ish hps  And 1point of mit = roughly .027ish% mit.
So roughly 100hps converts to 1%mitigation.  So my initial guesstimate was pretty off.

So yeah takes A LOT of hps to break even.  ;)

Still I like it.  :)


Incidentally crit bonusgive slightly less bang per hp spent trading at about 1 point per 3ish hps or roughly 111hps per 1%crit.


Specific mitigation (melee or spell) gives a much better return per hps sacced, but also (obviously are not quite as versitile).

Outside of APW I'd say melee mit is vastly more useful, but inside I woud lean towards spell mit being more useful.

Hrm...if that's correct then it blows away much of the traditionally held theory about equipment having x number of points to spend and certain things burn up y amount of that total pool?  It would suggest that some bonuses are cheaper on certain pieces than others?  Which is very strange to say the least.(but might explain why the RI mitigation jewlrey seems to be a rediculously good deal?)  I'm going to be making another full set for a bard soon.  I'll cross compare some of the peices as I make them and verify.  If that's the case it would stand to reason that some gear peices are biased towards particular stats/bonuses.  Which would be VERY enlightening vs. the current crafting/equipment mindset to say the least.  It would make boots/shoulders a bargain, head a ripoff, and legs somewhere between.

Thanks for the info.  When I get time I'll see what I can verify etc.  I'm insanely busy atm but I will eventually get around to it.

Actually it does and doesnt.  Items do have set points to distrbute but i think the reason you see such variance is its probably item dependant.  As in to put crit at all on an item costs X points, then the amount of crit is based on item specific multipliers.

Im sure the code is so convoluted that its not a simple 20 points = 100 hp or 50 mitigation.